July 13, 2014 - 9:52pm
Autolysis Question
I watched this video and like the guy's knowledgeable explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a17Il6F_i8U
He says to mix only the flour and water for autolysis, with no yeast or salt. My question is, for sourdough would there be any advantage or disadvantage to adding starter at this stage, before salt is added, or does it matter?
I realize the nomenclature may change if starter is added and it may more properly be named bulk fermentation.
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If you work with Sourdough Starter the Starter is given at the start with the flour and water, mix, Autolyse and than add the Salt.
A true autolyse is the flour and water for the final dough. The levain added after the autolyse period. When the pre-ferment carries a heavy portion of the water in the dough is often added for the "autolyse" phase, that is to say, mixed with the flour and water and left to rest for 30 minutes.
The more scientific folk can give a more formal answer but you don't want any competitive organisms in the way of the autolyse function. A starter has a lot going (yeast, bacteria, acids) on and interferes and since your essentially inoculating your culture, as you said it is essentially bulk fermentation with a short rest at the start.
Cheers
Josh
We learned from the video that an autolyze gets gluten development started. The yeast might get some proteolysis going, but one thing is certain: the pH will be different with starter added. Sound right?
The LABs cause proteolysis, viz.:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC126681/
For a true autolyze, i.e. gluten development as described in the video, it seems you would want to keep the starter out of it.
Just to be clear. Proteolysis is not related to an autolyse. Native proteases more abundant in whole wheat as they come from the aleurone layer are what weaken gluten.
Proteolysis is a process involving bacteria (yeast are minutely proteolytic) that involves an onset of protein hydrolysis. This happens in a starter with neglect when the organisms are stressed.
It's actually much more than gluten development. It's about getting the enzymes going and creating protease which will break down starch and convert to sugar in advance of fermentation. This actually makes the dough have less strength and adds extensibility to the dough. It does also allow for the flour to fully hydrate before mixing begins shortening mix times allowing for decreased oxidization of the dough meaning more flavor left intact. The other micro organisms in a starter would compete to do its business along with initiate fermentation. Salt competes for h20 which is why we leave it out but if the autolyse is to be long adding salt is safe.
My simple breakdown of things going on. There is much more to be said but that's not for me to try and convey but instead to learn and understand. I'm sure a full book could be devoted to this simple function.
Cheers
josh
A little mistake in there Josh.... You read that page by Giorilli right?!
Protease doesn't break starch. Amylases break starch and protease breaks proteins ie. gluten. "creating protease" is incorrect description. In the flour enzymes exist in certain quantities.
An autolyse is a technique that is used to allow for proper hydration and a utilisation of native enzymes.
Michael
you are right. When I wrote protease I meant amalyse. I think I got the idea across and this is a fine example why I try to hold back from reiterating the science. I swear though I've read the article albeit in google translate a few times. And funny enough I knew this fun fact I jumbled up without that article.
Cheers
josh
I did an autolyze yesterday, about an hour without starter, then added starter and proofed for 7 more hours. I didn't add salt until the last possible moment. I added the salt kneaded it at the stage where most people would punch down/degas the dough, and the kneading served to incorporate the salt. My KA left me with a nice dough boule. I got the best oven spring I've ever had and a much less dense crumb. Seeing that video helped a lot in explaining the benefits of autolysis. 60 minutes seems to be the optimum time.
This explains the improved crumb density and oven spring.
Aw, give it a shot!
I've seen recipes where the dough is allowed to "rest" but salt and yeast had already been added.
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/index.php/recipes-how-to-make-sourdough-bread/breadmaking-techniques/autolyse
I did try with what I wrote above. I read and read and learn and learn but a lot of what I learn scientifically I can't communicate properly and i don't want to be false advertising anything. How long did you hold out the salt for?
Josh
I do an 8 hour proof (actually now, 1 hour autolysis and 7 hours proof with starter). So the salt was held out for 8 hours and added immediately before baking.