August 25, 2012 - 10:02am
UK centric: Bacheldre Watermill organic stoneground strong white flour for successful sourdough bread?
Hello,
I was briefly active on this forum a couple of years ago but have decided to return.
Question: attempting a sourdough loaf according to Hamelman's 'vermont' formula ( 750g wheat flour + 100g rye flour) with the Bacheldre organic strong white flour I have tended to end up with a cowpat type loaf or similar, however spliting the wheat flour between the stronground Bacheldre flour and Waitrose very strong white canadian flour (15g protein per 100g) has resulted in a highly successful loaf with excellent oven spring. My impression of the stoneground flour is of rather low protein content from how the dough handles (i.e. similar to a paste).
Any ideas?
Tom Kershaw
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Hello Annie,
Thanks for your responce. I baked a reasonably successful yeasted loaf with the Bacheldre flour last night, but thinking about your comments re the fermentation times I suspect you are correct; the sourdough dough was surprisingly developed after bulk fermation compared to what might be expected from roller milled flour. How much time are you giving the dough in bulk fermentation? - your comment on percentage of active starter is probably relevant as well; I may well have been using too high a percentage of fermented leavain to start with, which would contribute to overshot fermentation.
Tom
Thanks I'll try that. The crust and crumb look excellent. Is the white flour the Bacheldre organic white stoneground for this loaf?
Tom
The unbleached strong white with a similar colour to commercial high extraction brown bread flour.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bacheldre-Watermill-Organic-Stoneground-Unbleached/dp/B005FPWYRM/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1346106687&sr=8-6
Tom
Hello Annie,
I tried your method yesterday with another "cowpat" being the result. Even after extensive shaping the dough would not hold its form and refused to rise in the oven, perhaps suggesting insufficient gluten development and / or overproofing. I'll try a more conventional technique this evening.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Have you considered contacting the mill? You need to talk to Matt. If you want his e-mail address, please send me a pm.
I would be asking him for the flour specification. You really need to know the protein content, the Hagberg Falling No., and in this case, a measure of the ash content, or a more precise analysis of the actual % extraction rate of the flour. If the flour is as unrefined as you suggest this will greatly speed up fermenting times on account of greater mineral acting as yeast food.
If you obtain the flour spec and need some help interpreting it, then again please contact me by pm and I will be happy to help if I can.
I use Bacheldre flour all the time, but only the Dark Rye, unfortunately, so I really don't have any experience of how their other flour performs.
All good wishes
Andy
Hello Andy,
Which white bread flours do you use? - I'll send a PM, actually I can see an aol e-mail address on the Bacheldre site.
Tom
Hi Tom,
I use Marriage's Organic Strong White Flour and Gilchesters' Organic Ciabatta Flour. The former is an excellent quality of bread wheat; the latter is a single strain of sativa grain which is grown and milled on a farm in Northumberland, around 30 miles away from where I live. I buy Gilchesters' flour as a high-extraction "Farmhouse", and a much finer and lighter "Ciabatta"
Best wishes
Andy
Hi Andy,
Can you explain what you meant by 'excellent quality of bread wheat' in Marriage's Organic flour you use? Is it the quality of gluten? I have used it once by recommendation by someone, but I was a bit disappointed for I found it a bit bland, both in flavour and aroma.
Intresting thread.... as I've just found out recently you could buy bags of Bacheldre's stoneground white from Amazon and been wondering how it's like. The protein level is quite high at 14.9%, so I expect it's strong enough flour to work quite easily but how about the colour, flavour and aroma? If anyone else (or people who have already posted here) can share the experience of the flour, it'd be really appreciated. Thank you. :)
Been using Bacheldre's rye and spelt for quite a while and been happy with them. I also bought their stoneground wholemeal flour (by mistake, actually, thinking it's spelt. Very similar label colour....) and going to use it for the first time later today. I was surprised how finer it was compared to my regular stoneground wholemeal flour, Waitrose Organic stoneground. Hope it works....
A while ago I started using Bacheldre flours. I love the wholegrain rye and the bakers white.
I just received a bag of soneground organic unbleached white. After I opened the bag I had to check the label again: It looks so much like high extraction flour. I am making my first loaf with it tonight, can't say much yet.
Juergen
Just what I wanted, and immaculate timing, too! Look forward to hear how you like the flour. Thanks! :)
....btw, where do you get your Bacheldre's Baker's White from? My local Waitrose only stocks their Rye, Spelt, Wholemeal (wheat) and malted flour.
Hi Lumos,
I am getting my Bacheldre flours via Amazon. Very easy.
Amazing what you can get there, I tried a bag of Bob's Red Mill AP flour, interesting (and expensive ...)
Back to the Bacheldre.
The Organic Stoneground Unbleached Strong White is definitely higher extraction, 85% I assume.
Here is a photo of a loaf made mostly with this flour:
I messed this one up a bit (I was trying to multitask) and ended up with the following recipe (based on DiMuzios DeCampagne)
Bacheldre Dark-White 285g, Doves WG Rye 15g, White Spelt 100g, Water 270g, Salt 8g, Instant Yeast 2g.
With T550 this loaf should be creamy-white, but it looks more like wholewheat.
This Bacheldre flour is extremely thirsty, the dough felt on the stiff side and developped well.
Maybe it's time for me to lay my hands on Hamelman's Miche Pointe-A-Caillere again using this flour?
Juergen
Thank you, Juergen. :)
OK...Amazon, again, then..... I knew they sold all sorts of things, including many kinds of flour (yes, I was astonished by the price of Bob's Red Mill, too. Probably 98% of the price is for air-freight....:p), but wondering I could buy it somewhere else = from someone who pays tax. They beat me again.....:p
Anyway..... The crumb has lovely warm colour. But, as you said, maybe not the sort of colour standard white flour would make. Thank you so much for taking a trouble to posting the photo.
Looks like if I want 'normal' white flour, I should uy Bakers White. Pity they only comes in a 16kg bag.....
A man on 'multi-tasking'. You're not genetically programmed for that, you know? ::sigh:: ..... :p
yes, ... I am aware of that ... Dilbert is my hero ...
Lumos,
I ordered this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bacheldre-Watermill-Organic-Stoneground-Strong/dp/B005INYPVY/ref=pd_sim_grocery_84
before.
Great white flour.
Juergen
Gosh, it's not even 16kg but 25kg! With the award under the belt, it seems really good flour' but it may take nearly a year for me to finish a bag...