July 20, 2010 - 12:14pm
Building a Starter
I'm not exactly a beginner at bread making. I learned at the foot of my Grandmother when I was about 10 (I'm 75 now) but things seem to have changed, and I'm trying to get a new starter going, using the instructions I find, here (I love this site, by the way) Can someone please explain to me, in plain english why I need to throw out 1/2 of my starter every time I refresh it ?
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for the same reason you clean the manure out of the stalls and put fresh hay in the manger. I'm sorry if that grosses you out but I can't think of a more direct analogy.
The other reason is that you don't want to keep doubling the amount of starter every time you feed it. In just a few days you'd have enough to fill a swimming pool.
To keep waste at a minimum, you have a couple of options. One, maintain a small amount of starter, say an ounce or two, or less than 50 grams. That way your discards are a very small amount of flour. Two, toss your discards into another container, refrigerate them and then use them in other things, like pancakes. Don't flush them down the drain unless you want to make your plumber wealthy. If you do pitch them, it's better to put them in the compost pile or in the garbage.
I hope that helps.
Paul
Thanks Paul for a good belly laugh...that's the best analogy I"ve ever heard.
Judy
Great analogy and explanation. Right on!
Howard
I'm glad everyone got a good belly laugh .. but I'm one of those who needs to know not only the "how to" but also the "why" seems I didn't explain myself too well, my question is relative to building a new starter. destructions say that daily for maybe a week to throw out half of what has started and replace it with like amounts of flour and water. what is the purpose of this ? as to replenishing it after it is usable, can't I simply replace the amount I have used (to keep the same amount) also .. when can I put it in the refrigerator to save for later use ?
No one is laughing at you. It just one of those amusing baker "things" that Paul so succinctly summed up in twenty-five words or less.
So, here's the real deal. Get yourself a copy of Jeffrey Hamelman's most excellent book: "BREAD - A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes. Jeffrey Hamelman is the Director of the Bakery and Baking Education Center for King Arthur Flour. Anyway, open the book to page 352 "Sourdough and Alchemy", continue reading through page 357. Hamelman lays out the entire process in detail.
Also, you should seriously consider reading the first 92 pages of BREAD, where Hamelman describes the 11 Steps of Baking (systematic process) in great detail and all the ancillary considerations.
Howard
thank you .. I will do exactly that. as soon as the weather cools off (I live in Las Vegas and it's been near 115+ for the past week and not much relief in sight) I will trek to Borders, grab a cup of their coffee and sit and read ..
my problem is that when I learned baking bread you didn't have to know chemistry, so all of this is foreign. hopefully it will all come together.
We all started out the same way you're starting. When you bake using the "direct method" (commericial yeast only) it's a fairly straight forward and relatively fail-safe routine, so long as you don't overproof the final dough.
As you begin getting into sourdough/levain baking you'll encounter more challenges with making and feeding your starter and as you begin baking you'll make more than a few mistakes. That being said, find a reasonably good sourdough recipe, one that comes to mind is Susan's Vermont Sourdough Bread (posted on TFL I think), and stick with baking that one loaf until you master the various aspects of sourdough baking. Then, after you feel comfortable with the sourdough baking process move on to other more challenging breads (and rolls). There's certainly no shortage of recipes/formulas here on TFL. You've landed in bread heaven, so to speak.
Another excellent book you may want to peruse while you're at Borders is "Bread Baking - An Artisan's Perspective" by Daniel T. DiMuzio. Dan's book really digs in and concentrates on the baking process and contains a sampling of recipes/formulas. It sounds like you initially need to concentrate on "the process and techniques" that will help you understand sourdough/levain baking in order to achieve success in your baking endeavors. FWIW my suggestion is to keep reading TFL posts and read some good books on artisan baking and you'll do just fine.
Best to you in your baking endeavors,
Howard
You throw it out so you don't end up with a massive quantity of starter. You will at least double what you begin with every time so it really won't take very long to go from a small amount to HUGE quantities if you don't remove some of it. I've prepared a table showing what happens if you feed 1:1:1 twice a day. Better call the flour delivery people too since you'll need truckloads in no time.
Why Discard Starter: A Mathematical View.
Aside from that the "manure" aspect is also true: you want to remove a portion of the "used" food (manure) to make room for fresh food.
Yes. If you keep, say, 50 grams of starter and your recipe calls for 40 grams then you're left with 10 grams. Give it back 20 grams of water and 20 grams flour and you've got a feed ratio of 1:2:2.
If however, you keep 150 grams and you use just 40, then the remaining 110 grams is NOT going to survive on 20g water and 20g flour. So here again, you need to cut it back to 30 grams - throwing away 80 into the compost or your "old starter" bucket for pancakes etc. Then you add 60g water and 60g flour and you're back to 150g total on a 1:2:2 ratio. Although that's terribly wasteful since there's no benefit to holding a larger starter if you aren't using almost all of it regularly.
You can put it in the fridge when it's been doubling (or more) consistently after every feed twice a day. However, if even after it's reached that point, you keep it out and keep feeding twice daily for a couple of weeks or three, you will build up your starter's strength (it won't keel over as easily and can raise your bread well and consistently) as well as letting it develop it's own character and flavours. Placing it into a fridge cycle too early will simply make that development phase take a whole lot longer.
Paul
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that I missed your intent and wound up causing you frustration. I keyed in on the "plain English" part of your request and, having grown up on a farm, went with an analogy that seemed to be both simple and relevant. I'm sorry that I left you in the lurch, as a result.
Thanks, Paul (rainbowz) for your more reasoned and explanatory response.
Paul
no need for the apology, Paul ..I, too, grew up on a farm and for more than 30 years bred and raised Arabian horses, so I am fully versed and experienced in manure mucking and the need to throw out the old hay and fill it with fresh .. nuff said ?
Wow, Paul, you make magic with words. That's the most succinct answer to the question of why discard that I've ever read.
I believe the way Susan from the Wild Yeast Blog explains it as well is, if you don't discard some of the starter, you'll eventually have too many mouths to feed, and some of the yeasties will go hungry.