March 10, 2022 - 1:21pm
YW Challah
I had mentioned previously about converting my Challah recipe that I have been making since the mid ‘70’s to YW. I posted pics of the Apple/Raisin YW that I used on the YW topic . . Freshly fed and fermented it did an outstanding job. The fragrance is intoxicating. Crumb shot in a bit.
I simply use 2c YW that’s very active and then follow my usual recipe. It’s in cups and measures and I haven’t ever bothered to change it. It’s been perfect all these decades so I haven’t felt the need.
The beauty of YW is the enriched dough rises so nicely and the bread crumb stays soft and shreadable for days unlike yeasted crumb.
Share
Comments
I'd love to try this and would gladly do the conversion to grams. Where can I find the challah recipe? My searches on here haven't turned it up.
Oh well it’s so easy : it’s not a Kosher recipe :
mix in a large container 2c YW very active, 1/4c sugar, 2 tsp salt ,3 large room temp eggs. and 1/4 c very soft but not melted butter. Whisk well. Pour in KA bowl. On speed one gradually add 7 c All Purpose flour unbleached KA or other ( I have used bread flour as well with no noted difference ) till no dry bits Cover and rest for 39-60 min. Run on speed 2 for 3 min then speed 1 for 2 more min. Should be perfectly soft and clean bowl. Let rise til double. Shape as desired. Let rise till almost double. I brush with egg yolk slightly diluted with water just before baking. 350 30 min. Swap racks mid way .
please post when you bake.
My daughter is visiting for the next few days so I'm unlikely to get a chance before next week.
Very active YW. I've made a batch and it tastes and smells great. I don't have enough experience to judge activity. It will have been in the fridge for a week before i get a chance to try this. How do you recommend I refresh it before baking?
Take out some and add enough water to make 2 c then add a some fresh fruit. Leave overnight in warm place. You can then pour whatever is left back into your original container.
Ah yes, simple. I can do that.
I'll do my usual tiny version first.
Looks great Caroline! Interesting comment on the texture and rise with enriched dough. Might have to try it on some nisu.
I have preached the wonders of YW on enriched doughs for years😊
Finnish cardamom bread
Really nice looking loaves Caroline. Nothing to upbraid you about this time even if it is made with baguette flour.:-) How much time did it take for the stages? Did you go straight through or was it retarded in the fridge before braiding like a typical Challah dough?
I must learn to have faith in my YW that when it is able to make raisins float and produces bubbles it is ready for baking. The building in stages is for proofing the yeast but is not really necessary. This certainly makes using YW a lot simpler. Thanks
Don
Not baguette flour just regular Arrowhead Mills AP.. I think I misspoke and said bread flour ( corrected) . Ooops. The first rise was 1 1/2 hrs and second was 1 hr. my YW almost always rises as if I was using regular commercial yeast. I didn’t retard. I haven’t ever retarded my Challah. yes I have never done staged builds with YW and rarely with my SD either. I just add however much flour and water I need for the final amount and let it go. I do sometimes take it out a couple times and stir vigorously to get things going but I don’t do 2-3 staged measured builds.
I am very lazy ! Thank you Don… you made me laugh. c
I'm all for lazy! I'm in awe of the bakers on here who do multi-day builds with fabulous results. I'm willing to do something really simple in the early evening, mix in the morning and bake in the afternoon but that is about as far as I can go.
I’m just glad I have had a good run for this long with my baking. I like learning new things .
I'm 3 hours into first rise and no signs of any rising yet. This is at 80F. The YW was bubbly this morning after spending the night at 80F with new fruit as suggested.
Mine is apparently much slower. I know that it can raise dough because it doubled a PF overnight just a few days ago and that was straight from the fridge.
In the past I have set the dough container in a larger container of pretty warm water when my house is chilly which is often. You say 80 so maybe try 90?. It should have doubled by now. I don’t know what else to suggest. I’m sorry.
My YW is out of the fridge and still bubbly from the photo I took and posted of apples/ raisins together last week. Everything is still floating as well. I do like apples in the mix! . I’m going to make a levain from the YW and part of the flour for another batch of the challah . I’ve been sick since Saturday so trying to get my strength back.
No worries. Not complaining, just reporting. I have bumped it up to 85F.
If it doesn't do something soon, I'll knead some dry yeast into the dough.
I hope you feel better soon.
I’ve never tried adding dry yeast to a dough. I wouldn’t think it would mix in ? I am so disappointed. c
I would make a slurry if adding.
https://www.google.com/search?q=can+you+add+dry+yeast+to+a+bread+dough+thats+not+rising%3F&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS676US676&oq=can+you+add+dry+yeast+to+a+bread+dough+thats+not+rising%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i546l5.30468j0j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Yes, I added about 6 grams of water to 2.5 grams of yeast and made a little slurry. That mixed in fine and it is rising fast now. I'm on the second rise.
My yeast water must be weak. It is so easy to make I may try another batch. I just used some old raisins we had. I'll find some organic ones and see what I can do.
I started 2 levains. One with the YW right off the top that was very fizzy and all fruit still floating. And then I gently lifted out the fruit , poured off all the clear YW and used the accumulated spoonful of white residue in the bottom to make a second levain. Both using AP flour . 1/2 c flour and 6 TB YW. Will see how they look over the next hours. Our power is out due to storms so no telling how this will end up! c
It tastes good! It rose nicely with the yeast boost.
I made it in a pan so it is lacking the nice shape. I think I must have gotten my hydration calculations off because the dough was quite sticky. I would not have been able to braid it (even if I knew how).
Thanks for the help. I hope your power comes back soon.
Depending on weather I have had sticky and everything in between! Since I’ve been making it so many decades and using cup measures I am used to every permutation. My levains are back in a warm microwave power back. 1/4 of town was out.866 homes :).
I meant to label which was sludge and which was clear YW “ top of the town” but I forgot! One is doing way faster I suspect past experience it’s the top that’s doing better.
Tall and pretty. I haven't tasted it yet, still too warm.
I made it in a pan again because it was way too sticky for me to handle. By my calculations your recipe has the yeast water at about 56% of the weight of the flour (at 120 grams per cup). I dropped it to 50% today and still too sticky. The King Arthur recipe has the water at 41%. I'll try that next time.
I added apples to my yeast water and kept it at 75F overnight. It was really fizzy this morning.
I added 1% yeast this time to make sure it rose and boy did it.
I'm enjoying working through this.
Pictures please. Not sure why it’s sticky. I’ve not had that problem. How much is 1% yeast?
I thought about the oiled raisin comments and looked and my raisins I have been getting from The Nuts.com folks are oiled with safflower oil. Didn’t notice it making any difference in my YW but apples definitely make it zoom along . You should take out some and feed it a few slices ripe banana!!! You won’t believe how great it does . There are several banana YW /SD breads by Shiao Ping on TFL . I’ve made them and they are amazing. The YW does really come through if you use banana.
So glad it’s working out. c
I'll take a picture when I cut it.
When I say the yeast is 1% I mean it weighs 1% as much as the flour which was 275 grams so 2.7 grams is what I used. Everything is proportional to the amount of flour.
I didn’t know how much flour/ grams you used. I don’t weigh as I said but I use exactly 7 pre fluffed/ scooped and leveled cups of AP flour and as exactly as possible 2c water. I used to throw in 1/4 tsp of ADY several years ago but haven’t recently. I’ve also decided to leave off the egg wash. Have always used it all these decades but since I had Covid in Nov 2020 I am very sensitive to odors and I can’t stand the smell now when the bread is being toasted 😩
Is 125 g so you are making a very tiny loaf?
All my experimental/leaning loaves are tiny and that is almost all I bake these days. I have a 4 inch cube pan (1 liter) that I use. I love it. I can bake every other (or 3rd) day and don't shed too many tears when a loaf turns out inedible.
I think it would make it hard to calculate the proper amounts but I’ve not tried it. That’s a lot of yeast to add. I think .9 g would be plenty. Judging from my using 1/4 tsp for 7 c of flour which is roughly 875 g flour . Just a thought.
That's the beauty of baker's percentages. I work out those in a spreadsheet and then I just change the total flour to scale everything.
The flavor is good.
Yes, I may back off on the yeast though I see no downside to including more than the minimum.
I've included a photo of this loaf (after eating a couple of slices).
Very nice!!!! Makes a great grilled cheese!
I agree with Caroline that is a lovely looking loaf with a beautiful soft yellow crumb Gary.
Benny
Nice to hear it turned out well in the end and you were rescued by the instant yeast!
You know, I do a lot of experimental loaves that just don't work out, in fact the majority of my breads are some sort of experiment, and I have a high failure rate, but that is part of the process and I move on. Think I must take a leaf from your book and not see some of them through to the bitter end, but rather to do a yeast rescue sometimes.
One of the recent experiments was with YW. So, I tried to copy Caroline's method, which seems to be different from mine in that she uses a lot of yeast water and uses it quite fresh and kept at room temp for about a day from what I can tell So, for my experiment I made a large fresh batch of yeast water, that I kept at room temp for a day and a bit before using in a recipe (mine usually stays in the fridge). Fed with apples and raisins. And took it from the top of the jar, trying to avoid the sludge at the bottom, just like Caroline suggests, but maybe I wasn't thorough enough. And used a large amount of the YW in the recipe - my notes say all of the hydration came from this YW. It just didn't work out for me, my notes say I had poor gluten development. Not sure if I just used too much YW, or if mine was too acidic and attacked the gluten. Or had some glutathione from sludge even. Or maybe Caroline has special yeasties in hers!
So, for now I'm still using the most reliable method that I know of for using YW. One (or two) preferments. Always works if two. Mostly reliable if one. Fermentation is fast and furious because it is like using a lot of poolish. And you can even keep the developed preferment in the fridge for a week before using and it will still work.
I'm guessing that one thing you might be looking for is something like a flourless liquid yeast water that you can keep in the fridge in an active state and can use straight away together with your magic FLAS/CLAS. Although IDY is probably already exactly that. And as I've said you can keep a YW levain in fridge for a while before using, so maybe we already have the thing that I've been searching for.
-Jon
I made two YW levains last night. Going to make the Challah today. I used 1/2 c flour AP in each and 6 Tbsp of YW in each. The one using the YW from the top of the container tripled in a couple hrs. The other using mostly sludge from the bottom had some bubbles breaking the surface in the middle of the night so I added some extra YW and another 1/4 flour . It’s robust this morning. I will add a bit more YW as part of the water this morning.
None of this was fresh YW it’s the batch pictured over a week ago with apples and raisins and it has been in the fridge while I was out of town for a week. I let it warm up overnight and it was still very fizzy and the fruit floating yesterday. I wanted to see how it would do with both apples and raisins and I am very happy with it. It has lasted longer than any previous YW I’ve made I. years!
I have decided to take it with me to Fl for the month of April so I can bake exclusively from it and feed it and see how it does.
I’m sorry Jon that your gluten didn’t develop I have never had that happen except when I made a pineapple YW!!!! Oops… it was so fragrant too but raw pineapple is a no go lol!
Im sure somewhere in the recipe translation there was a misunderstanding. I almost always use SD levains usually 2 and YW as well… covering all my bases. Will post back on this challah later today. c. Picture of the two levains! They started at (4) and look at them now! Left one has fallen a bit but the one on right was sludge fed again with YW at 1:30 am as it hadn’t risen much… boy is it happy and very thick.
Lovely pics, thanks Caroline. Yeah, I think the misunderstanding that I had was maybe to use only YW and no water in the final dough.
Just want to check with you - because at some point I'll take the plunge and go from my usual IDY challah to this recipe, the recipe said - "I simply use 2c YW that’s very active and then follow my usual recipe." < so that will be the 2 cups like in your picture here, with flour in them too?
Beginning to also really get what a good idea it is to have all sorts of things in the final dough that could potentially do the leavening, YW, SD, poolish. etc.
Looking forward to reading about your Fl breads!
Oh! I had understood that to be 2 cups of YW with nothing else added... That could have been my mistake.
I have usually used only the 2c active YW and no flour added. It’s always worked , this the pitfalls of trying to duplicate any ones formulas when it’s based on something so hard to reproduce like YW.
I think your approach and mine with everything but my Challah is a good one. Today I used 2 levains with a total of 1 1/4 c of the total 7 c of AP flour in them. I also went ahead and put in 1 1/4c active YW and no regular water as the remaining needed 2c called for. The dough came together beautifully in the KA and is autolysing now. Will snap some pics . I am torn about posting now as I feel like I’m misrepresenting what I’m doing or conveying poor info. I’m no “ baker” and not nearly meticulous enough. I’m very very lucky though and seem to have good instincts…. for what it’s worth😬🙏
We're learning from your instincts. Communication is hard work but we're enjoying the ride.
Might be worth taking a peek at this post:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/70219/10-tips-baking-blog-usability
Writeups can be a great way of clarifying details and sequences. They can be written by the expert or by someone who wants to capture the info. The clearer the writeup, the easier it is for the expert to react to it and correct/tweak it.
Thank you! The write up tips helped 🙏
Thank you! The write up tips helped 🙏
My experience is similar Jon. I enjoy experimenting and with my tiny pan I can bake every other day. Most loaves are good but I had one just yesterday that I pushed way too far and couldn't save. But it was only 200g of flour so not too much waste.
I'm experimenting with the YW looking for interesting flavors. I can get all the lift I need from IDY and have no qualms about using it.
I like Caroline's use of multiple levens. I'm experimenting with a liquid SD starter driving one leven and RYW driving the other with a bit of yeast added to the final dough for good measure.
How long are your cooling racks? I'm estimating the volume of your loaves for scaling.
16” long x 12” wide. My husband likes fatter short loaves and the circle ones for Rosh hashanah.
These each weighed 1# 14 oz
I love me a challah and yours look really fine Caroline, you are hitting it out of the park with your yeast water breads.
Benny
This looks so nice!!!!
The crust is so thin and has a lovely crisp to it. That’s the interesting and challenging part about our home grown yeasts. They really do turn out differently , to varying degrees, every bake. Nature has a mind of its own and conditions are always changing. anicca…
Lovely. Always wanted to do a challah since I tried one maybe 30 years ago when I was first expanding my food horizons with a girlfriend with Polish heritage and was attracted to the braided shape and the beautiful yellow colour from eggs. Can't believe I still haven't got around to baking one (or eating a second one!) since then. Such is life for kids growing up as suburban WASPs with no food culture :p
I too was a Wasp with little in the way of food culture. My Mom learned to make this Challah and baked her own bread for many years for her and my Dad! So you can too. 🙏
When I look at my list of bookmarks all I see are trailrunner blogs. I'll never catch up, but I'm having a lot of fun with yeast water. Lovely Challah.
Richard
I am glad you like what I bake. I enjoy it. I need to go back and bake a lot of old stuff as well. But my memory and notes are terrible!!! Good luck and thank you !!c
Pages