YW 86% rye 13" Pullman loaf 1862g TDW
Delicious! I wrapped the finished 13” Pullman loaf in linen towels and left it 24 hrs. Like a tender rich cake. Very cool mouth feel and a lovely crisp deep toasted crust due to plenty of butter to prevent sticking. This dough was WET! It contained 2 YW levains one white and one Rye . It also contains my trinity of EVOO -honey - yogurt.
I saw it rising in a VERY uniform fashion as I did the bulk ferment in the pan. I counted the ridges on the pan sides to watch the progress. At one hour I saw one bubble break the surface! Triumph Paul said stop the room temp ferment immediately and I did. It continued to rise in the fridge with the cover on while it retarded till the next morning. Baked at 450 top on 20 min lowered to 400 for 20 min top on then 25 min top off. Couldn’t be happier. Such an easy rye . One bowl one pan stir proof retard bake. Can’t ask for more balanced flavor or a more beautiful crumb. 
Make levains 35g white starter feed with 125g YW 125g T65 ( or other white flour)
35g rye starter feed with 125g YW 125g rye flour ( all rye was ground slightly coarse in Mock Mill)
ferment till fully developed. Overnight in the microwave with light on produced great growth.
Dough. I autolysed the the dough ingredients separately from the levain at room temp overnight due to the coarse grind.
627g coarse rye Mock Mill
557 filtered room temp H2O
90 g total Trinity - 30g each EVOO/honey/yogurt
18g salt
Mix everything together the next AM making sure it is all blended. Easy to do by hand. Butter your large Pullman and lid very very well. Place dough in and smooth top with a wet spatula. Leave in a warm place, I used the radiator in a sunny window. Mine took only one hour to see the " first fermentation bubble". Put lid on and place in fridge overnight. Bake in 450 preheated oven for 20 min covered. Lower to 400 and continue covered bake another 20 min. The slide cover off and say " whoa" as it will be so brown and full to the top and continue to bake 25 min. Remove from pan after about 10 min to let it loosen. Wrap in linen for 24 hrs. Slice and enjoy. c
Comments
You are much braver than I. Rye fermentation can move so fast that I'd be worried about it overproofing before it cooled down enough for the retard. Whew!
Excellent results, though, so the process obviously works. Good on you!
Paul
Paul, I peeked in the pan as it was retarding and it was almost to the top. In past bakes that was ok and as it happens with this one also. Luck was with me once again as far as YW. Who knows what science has to say about it but I’m very satisfied. Hope you will try it.
That would be a perfect wheat flour bread. How did you manage such an amazing crumb for an 86% rye bread?
Such a lovely bake, Caroline.
And luck 😳😊. As far as my crumb goes it is boringly the same due to the YW. I also don’t stint on the amount of YW that I use. I know some inoculate with the barest minimum but I use lavish amounts in comparison. I haven’t yet seen a reason to decrease the amount as far as how the bread tastes, which is most important to me , or how it looks , which is of lesser import to me. Thank you for your kind words .
This is on my list to try. But I can't mill my own rye. I can buy Lindley Mills organic rye flour at my local co-op. Is that likely to work?
But please post with your results so we can all learn together. c
That looks like pullman perfection Caroline. You had just the right amount of dough in that pan to get that gorgeous square slice of bread. I bet it is delicious.
Benny
We had ham and aged cheddar sandos with lettuce and spicy mustard . Perfect flavors. It is definitely a keeper. Going to expand my base with some other combos. Will post back. Thank you Bennie and hope the vaca is going well. c
What a fantastic bake. I love the moist open crumb and can imagine this would make a perfect sandwich.
Happy Baking!
Ian
Yes it is a lovely bread. I imagine it will have great keeping powers. I cut it into blocks and froze them. It slices SO thin and holds together perfectly. I feel like I should pinch myself to see if I am dreaming about how perfectly it turned out on a 1st try. I will get it to 100% rye the next time and see if that makes any difference . Also my husband wants orange zest in it as he loves rye/orange flavor. Always lots to try . Thank you for looking, c
Beautiful in every respect.
And 1862g to fill a large USA Pullman. That really proves the necessity to experiment with closed Pullman Pans, when you consider that a light sandwich bread only requires 850g to fully fill the large USA Pullman pan just like yours did.
I love Pullman Bread…
It’s a lovely bread. I’m lucky I read your post where you said 1900 g to fill . I have filled it with 1500 g using a different formula and more white flour so believe the denser grains require a higher overall TDW. That said I believe to a certain extent it can be overfilled and the crumb isn’t compromised. Baking has its challenges! c
This and your recent Pullman loaves are marvelous. I'm going to get some raison YW going and follow your recipes. Thanks so much for sharing these delicious-looking loaves.
Richard
It’s certainly an easy loaf to make! One pot stir and done. As usual time and patience are the key components. Please post back . c
Hubby here also likes orange zest in his rye. Great bake.
We are enjoying it. c
Impressed that this was made with 86% rye. Wow.
Since I usually use rye as a smaller component along with either Arrrowhead Mills AP or T65 I am not at all familiar with using large percentages of rye.
I saw others were using very high percentages of rye with success and I kept seeing the batter type loaf smoothed over with a wet spatula. How is this different? What are you seeing that is a surprise? I am planning to go 100% rye as others have posted as well as trying 100% WW . Any insight? Thank you. 🙏
That's awesome. Rye + orange zest sounds cool too. Inspiring bake.
I got tired of dense, sour rye loaves and took an IDY vacation for a few months.
Yours looks wonderful. How's the flavour and texture? If it's not too sour, maybe this will push me over into the YW world.
That’s one reason I use YW. Also important to me is the flavor it does allow to come through since it’s not sour you really get a clean taste of the grain. The freshness component that SD doesn’t have as it gets stale very quickly. This bread is moist and tender absolutely no gummy quality at all. Almost cake like but it has a nice bite to it due to the more coarse grinding of the rye even with the long autolyse.
I also like the fermentation of YW breads and the beautiful crumb I always get. You should give it a whirl. c
Which gets stale very quickly? Are you saying your YW Rye gets stale quickly?
I always think it’s funny when folks say SD stays fresh for extended periods. It doesn’t mold for extended periods but as to a tender fresh crumb that’s at most a 24 hr occurrence. You always see tons of ideas for how to use stale SD. Toast, croutons French toast, bread salad , bread pudding you name it.
For years I have modified my Challah recipe to be a YW formula. What an amazing difference!!! It has the loveliest soft crumb for days ! Traditionally Challah is only good for 24 hrs at most before everyone is making it into something else 😊.
So that’s a long answer but YW is the answer to lots of issues with traditional SD … all this is just my opinion course. 🙏
Thanks. That is my experience with SD as well. I add an oat soaker to extend the soft life.
I'm going to be trying YW and your rye.
Please ask if you have any questions and post your results, anxious to learn as much as possible about the variations we all will experience. c
OK. I'll ask. How do you go about converting a SD recipe? Substitute 50g YW + 50g Flour for 100g of SD starter? If so, how long do you let that combination mature before using it?
Keep in mind YW wants warmer temps to mature and it goes faster also which leads to a less sour dough overall as well. I don’t think you can use too much YW so I use it lavishly. Others as you may have noted as with the Swiss Farmhouse bread only inoculate with a small amount YW and then use all regular water to feed and for the liquid. When I make it I dump in YW for 100 g or so of the water as well as feeding the levain with YW 😳.
Everyone’s YW is different and tastes are certainly different. The great thing is you can’t go wrong. Just watch the dough.
I don’t worry about when to use my levain with SD or YW. If it’s robust or after 2 hrs which it often is I refrigerate it if I’m not ready or if it’s fallen after rising overnight I use it as is. It all works because it’s a viable levain and the dough will adjust accordingly.
Hope this helps.
Ooh, can you tell us your modifications for a YW challah?
It’s not a Kosher recipe. It was the first yeast bread I ever baked back in 1977! It was such a success I baked it weekly for decades. My children , no win their 40’s still ask for it and want it still warm with honey and butter in the two hollowed out ends! My grands love it the same way. The big difference now is as I said how moist it stays. When I refresh my YW the dough usually rises almost as fast as it did with ADY! YW loves enriched doughs which is why when I see posts on TFL asking what to do about enriched doughs and SD I think “ use YW levain”. It will prevent Babka and Cinnamon rolls and all other enriched doughs from becoming stale in 24 hrs. Plus no sour!
Challah with YW
6-7 c unbleached flour ( I use Arrowhead Mills AP)
1/4 c sugar
2 tsp salt
3 large eggs
2c active YW
1/4c soft butter
Using a whisk beat together everything but the flour don’t worry if the butter doesn’t mix in thoroughly it will . Place this mixture in the KA bowl turn mixer on low and begin adding flour. When thoroughly moist cover and autolyse 1 hr. Mix on med till cleans bowl and a soft pliable dough. May add small amounts of flour as needed to achieve a smooth non sticky dough. Egg size does influence amount of flour. I have never converted to weight.
If hand mixing put flour in large bowl make well in center and add all liquid mixture . Fold till moistened and cover , autolyse . Use in bowl folding to achieve soft dough and then countertop fold .
Autolyse really works on this dough. Needs very little handling . No more folds after dough developed. Set to rise till double. Shape as desired in braid. Let rise til almost double brush with egg yolk wash. Bake preheated oven 350 for 30-35 min turn 1/2 through to get even browning.
you can search TFL for pictures of my Challahs.
Thank you for sharing! I've started my yeast water. I hope to bake this soon!
🙏👍
This looks great. It is nice to see this rye + YW combination working so well.
It’s a great bread and I shall be posting variations as time allows. c
Why is the starter required? I see you use a wheat starter and a rye starter along with the YW in this loaf. Is the issue flavor or rising power?
I just had rye and white starter in the fridge and and the white is a YW starter and added the rye to get more rye in the mix . It’s definitely not needed. Just feed the YW with white and rye each or all rye for a 100% rye loaf. That’s my next experiment.
I've made some, it smells great! I've got the preferments for this recipe going.
How do I maintain my yeast water?
20-30 raisins 1 qt water. Raisins will float and bubbles form at warm temp I use my microwave with light on. Refrigerate when all raisins floating. Use as desired. When raisins sink in the refrigerated stored YW carefully pour off the remaining clear liquid, rinse container and discard gunk and all old raisins in bottom add new filtered water to the old clear YW and new raisins to the clean jar to make a qt again . Leave at warm temp til floating then refrigerate and use … usually every 2 weeks they will sink.
I see you start over. OK. I was thinking some "back slopping" with part of the previous batch might reduce the time to make the next batch.
You do keep whatever is clear poured off and add to it with new raisins.
Yes, I missed that. Too many years of speed reading followed by old age.
I edited it right after I posted ! So you are fine, I on the other hand wasn’t as clear as your YW will be 😂😳👍
My dough has risen to within 1/2 inch of the top of the pan but still no "first fermentation bubble". I'm thinking I should move it to the fridge anyway. Or should I wait?
I wouldn’t wait past that . And with cover on resist checking it again . It tears the loaf as the dough will be touching the inside of lid. Remove lid after its 30 min or so into bake
I wouldn’t wait past that . And with cover on resist checking it again . It tears the loaf as the dough will be touching the inside of lid. Remove lid after its 30 min or so into bake
Thanks. I moved it to the fridge shortly after my posting. I will not check it until 30 minutes into the bake tomorrow morning.
Hope you are as pleased with the bake as we are. c
I just realized I haven't heard or seen the results. I am getting ready to start another loaf of the same bake. post back when you get a chance. c
I'm eating it now. It didn't quite make the top of the pan; I should have let it go a little longer before moving to the fridge. It's a little more sour than I prefer (and I like sour) but that is likely because I let my levens go too long; the white one had peaked and collapsed into goo.
It is good. Huge rye flavor. A couple of pictures below. The first is right out of the oven and the second is this morning.
Did you make a 13" loaf or a tiny one ? That crumb looks perfect. I have never had a sour tang so alot has to do with all our individual starters and our levain as it develops. I just fed my starters so will be tomorrow before I bake it. Stay tuned. My 10 yr old grandson had a thick slice yesterday and said it was the best bread " Dammie " has made ever !! He's been eating my breads since he started solid food so I have to give him a lot of weight as far as appreciation !! c
Only 4" long; all my experimental bakes (which is practically all) are tiny.
Yes, I overflew by a lot on the levens. Next time I'm going to omit the SD starter and use YW only.
Thanks for the idea and instruction.
I make the 13” and then cut into 3 pieces… I always assume the experiment will be a success 😂. I’m reproducing the initial bake as much as one can and using some rye SD starter with a YW feed like I did last time as well as a YW T 65 starter with YW this time in equal parts. Just put the rye flour to presoak with all the liquid and other ingredients and salt like I did last time. Will put it in the fridge later today.
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