Michel Suas' New York Rye Bread - Advanced Bread and Pastry
This is Michel Suas version of N.Y Rye from his book Advanced Bread and Pastry. It's a great rye bread with great taste and texture. His formula calls for a pre-fermented dough that is made up the night before you bake, left out at room temp. for an hour, then refrigerated overnight and used with the final dough mix the following morning. This is not a sourdough bread but still has excellent flavor and texture. I doubled his test recipe and made 4 lbs of dough rather than 2 lbs. I mixed the preferment into the water for the final dough with my K.A. to break the preferment up as much as possible. Then, added the combined flours (equal parts bread flour and medium rye flour), yeast and salt for the final dough, mixing it into a rough mass, then worked it by hand, slapping and folding for about 5 minutes. Then at the end of the mixing cycle I gave it an initial stretch and fold, then 2 more, at 20 minute intervals during the first hour of bulk fermentation, which took a total of about 1.5 hours. At the end of bulk fermentation I divided the dough in half and, without letting any gas out of the loaves, carefully shaped them and put them in my proofing baskets. Yeah, they're weird looking proofing baskets, but they work great. Anyway. I then baked the 2 loaves in a 450 deg. F. preheated oven, with a blast of steam (1 cup microwaved, boiling water into a cast iron skillet on the lowest rack in the oven). They baked for 38 minutes in the middle of the oven, turning them around at mid way in the baking cycle.
Here's Mr. Suas description from AB&P: "Rye flour and caraway seeds are a typical flavor combination found in breads from Eastern Europe. When people from this area of the world immigrated to New York City, they brought their bread making tradtions along. Rye bread came to be thought of as being native to New York City, where it is particularly associated with Jewish delicatessens."
Here's my first try at Mr. Suas N.Y. rye bread, which I think is a real winner.
Michel Suas' New York Rye Bread - Advanced Bread and Pastry
Comments
Amazing bake, Howard :-)
The crumb looks impressively light!
I hope AB&P finds its way underneath the Christmas tree this year...
I've been interested in experimenting more with different ryes, so I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind? There's 50% each of medium rye and bread flour in the final dough. What's the overall ratio between rye and bread flour in the recipe? I remember dougal mentioning Suas' slightly...unorthodox approach to baker's %. What's the hydration level of the preferment? I bet it's either a stiff biga or a pate fermentee? Do you know what the overall hydration of the recipe is?
Cheers, and congratulations on the nice loaves!
Hans Joakim
Pre-ferment Baker's %
Bread flour............ 100.00
Water................... 65.00
Yeast (instant)....... 0.50
Salt...................... 2.00
TOTAL.................. 167.50
Here's Suas' "Total Formula" baker's % (including pre-ferment) for the formula.
Bread flour............ 60.00
Medium rye flour.... 40.00
Water................... 70.00
Yeast................... .50
Salt..................... 2.00
Caraway seeds..... 1.00
TOTAL.................. 173.50
Hope this answers your questions.
Howard
Thanks a bunch, Howard! Much appreciated :-)
I've put the numbers into my spreadsheet, so this recipe will be next on my to-bake list.
Hans Joakim
Thanks for the post Howard. I have looked at the New York Rye recipe in the Suas book and have been tempted to give it a try. You convinced me!
Take a look at the Suas recipe for Two Castle Rye. This is a wonderful bread I made while attending one of his classes. There is an interesting story regarding the history of this bread. It is a bit of a challenge to make but with all of the goodies, you mix into the dough, well worth trying.John
Suas' N.Y. rye is well worth the effort. I wanted to bake a rye bread because I hadn't made one in a month or so and was torn between trying the Two Castle Rye and the N.Y. Rye. Thanks for your Two Castle Rye recommendation, I will definitely make it in the near future.
I really like AB&P very much. The book has some little "ticks" that are somewhat annoying i.e. inconsistent units of measure between the commercial batches and the 2 lb. "Test" batches, but overall I think it's a terrific book. Maybe Mr. Suas will see fit to fine-tune it in future editions.
Howard
Good looking bread.
Turns out some of us really don't like carroway - which is why I would never make or eat rye bread. But it is a classic.
My rye odessy continues this week with home ground - sitting in the bulk ferment as I type.
I'm going to have to call TMB baking - that ABandP still hasn't arrived! (Maybe Mr Suas is "de-ticking" it.
Enjoy Dunwoody! (I'd enroll, but I'm just a girl :>))
Pat
Incidentally, I have most excellent connections at Dunwoody Institute. Just give me the word and I'll speak with the school's Director, J. Danforth Dunwoody XVIII.
Hang in there and keep an eye on that bulk fermentation vat :>)
Howard
EDIT: Pat, FYI. In order to avoid protracted litigation with N.O.W., J. Danforth Dunwoody has allowed girls to enroll at Dunwoody Institute since early 2008.
I am now waiting the 24 hours before I can slice my home milled rye. From the outside it looks "about like" commercially milled rye, so I have high hopes. One little variable at a time.
I can really understand why so few bakeries produce rye using the Detmolder method. The inventory investment before you can get the thing out the door is incredible. Despite the wet cement texture of the dough, there is a certain satisfaction in growing a teaspoon of levain into a finished loaf.
Glad to hear that The Dunwoody Institute has moved into the 20th century. I can now achieve my dream of being a Panner (not to be confused with paneer)... (I bet they wonder why that video is getting so many hits.)
Happy Baking!
Pat
Pat,
Knowing that tastes vary widely from one individual to another, have you tried ry bread with either dill seed or fennel seed? My wife is not fond of caraway either, but enjoys rye bread with either dill or fennel. Matter of fact, I made RLB's sourdough rye this weekend with a 50/50 mixture of the two. Haven't had opportunity to cut into it yet, but it smells wonderful!
Paul
Something to think about.
My baking is like my mill - it grinds slow but grinds exceeding fine. Right now I'm working on 70% Detmolder rye - which doesn't need the carroway. In a year or so when I feel like that is OK, I'll go to 80% and then, 90%, then I've got aFinnish 100% recipe to work on.
The next time we elect a President, I'll be happy enough with my bread to post a picture...
Pat,
I'm SO ashamed... I don't know WHY but I always thought you were a man (I think it's my Irish heritage and all the Pat's in the family for Patrick). After all these months, I have to convert. That is the problem with these forums, we can't always know up front. I apologise!!!!!
Looking forward to your rye quest and rye conversion. You'll love it without the caraway. I tasted another rustic rye from a baker and it was fabulous.
Jane
Yes, I'm afraid that I've "outed" myself. I was watching the video that Norm posted and I really did start having flashbacks.
It's not a problem. I am a baker and miller (and whatever it is I do for my real living) first and foremost.
My sourdough ryes are getting to the point where I am almost content that they are edible. I am still getting a handle on handling the stuff. I'm not totally won over by the "wet cement" texture.
But I practiced for two years before I thought I made a decent baguette - so time will tell.
Pat
Pat,
OK, so now I know the "truth" about one part of your identity, I'm now curious about what your "real" job is that allows you to travel so much. Do tell!
Yah, the paste with heavy ryes is a bit strange. The other day I made a rye bread with white thick starter and only added rye flour, no wheat. It was very, very wet and I'm sure many would have added flour. I wasn't following a recipe, just experimenting and so I left it like that. You can see the result on my blog, it's the crackled top one. The result was really amazing! So, gluey, wet, sticky, cementy for rye is good!
Jane
www.aulevain.fr
Is just boring. I'm an information systems consultant with a speciality in Supply Chain Planning and Inventory Management.
For the past - oh - 15 years or so I have taken a commercial flight at least twice a week almost every week. So, frequent flyer miles are not a problem.
What is a problem is that all I want to do is go home...
This is why my baking development goes so slowly. Usually I have one baking day each week - which competes with my growing most of my own produce, milling, keeping up the koi pond, putting up jams, and candymaking that I also do in the 48-72 total hours I have at home. Nothing like having 5 kids - but pretty demanding. I try to bake 4-5 types of bread each baking day (rye is pulling it up to 6) - just so I can learn to focus on the process. I will repeat one type of bread until I am happy with it -and when I am, I'll let y'all know.
Fortunately I am working at home for the next few months and this will no doubt be a good thing for my baking life - although this working for a living still interferes with my baking...
Ah ha! Mystery élucidé (elucidated?) I even checked out the thread about different people's job to see if you said anything. Ha ha ha!
I may have five children, but a vegetable garden and self made food, etc takes even more time and work. I made a formal decision NOT to prepare the veggie plot last spring because I KNEW it just wasn't going to happen.
Maybe you could write me on my e-mail if you have time, I am SO curious to know why your professor doesn't like the Bouabsa baguette technique.
Jane
janedo70@gmail.com
Howard,
Nice looking rye! I'd be curious to taste it next to a true sourdough rye to see if it is really different. From the formula it is a fairly light rye so I guess there isn't a real "rye" difficulty. Of course, I'd leave out the seeds, otherwise no one will eat it over here.
Jane
The overall mix (including the pate fermente) in baker's % is 60% bread flour and 40% medium rye flour. As I said, Suas uses a pre-ferment (mixed and left overnight in the fridge), which imparts good flavor to the bread. The seeds are a matter of taste. This is a N.Y. rye, common in the N.Y. delis and used to make the great stacked N.Y. deli sandwiches. I've done numerous versions of rye over the years, including those made with levain, with and without the seeds, and I like them all. This N.Y rye from Suas' book is a real winner.
Howard
You all have been talking so much about this book but it has a hefty price tag and I still haven't really tested many recipes from all the other books I've bought. But you gave the formula for this one so I can give it a try!
Jane
Inspired by Howard's awesome loaves, I decided to have a go on the recipe he kindly provided above. I'm using fresh yeast, so I based my version on 1.25% total fresh yeast. I made a pate fermentee with 1/3 of the total flour (used 0.5% fresh yeast in it), and let it ferment for roughly 12 hours at room temperature. I used whole rye in the final mix. After a brief autolyse and mix, I did a stretch and fold, and let the final dough ferment in the fridge for approximately 12 hours.
I was really happy with the taste; Suas has beautifully balanced the ingredients in my opinion. 1% caraway is just right according to my taste :-) Also, since this is only a 40% rye, it's quite light and airy, but it still has that great rye flavor. Highly recommended!
PS: After the loaves were done baking, I noticed that Hamelman has a similar recipe for a 40% rye in "Bread". That recipe looks very similar to this one, apart from the fact that his recipe uses both 1.25% fresh yeast and a rye sourdough (and he's bumped the caraway up to 1.8%, perhaps a bit too much for my taste). It would be very interesting to compare these two recipes, and see how a pate fermentee compares with sourdough in such a (relatively speaking) light rye bread.
Thanks for posting the recipe, Howard! I'll sure make this bread again.
Suas' NY rye bread
Suas' NY rye bread
Hans Joakim
Very nice job.
Howard