September 9, 2008 - 8:15am
40% Rye
I was happy with my first attempt at 40% Rye with Caraway, until I saw SteveB's. After looking at his post on his blog I tried his method modifications minus the covered steaming. I like the steam cover I just can't bake 2 loaves this size at the same time.
I also used only 8 grams of caraway and it was ground. I just wanted a hint of spice. The sour came through very nicely. I used my rye starter and let it age for 18 hours for maximum sour flavor.
Thanks Steve, I don't know how this could be any better.
Eric
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Eric, those are magnificent! What do you think you did to get that bloom? I assumed SteveB got his by steaming the loaves under cover, but you didn't do that, if I understand.
David
David,
I think it was making sure the hydration was right and I liked the 100% sour that Steve uses. I steamed it hard for 15 minutes and removed the steam pan which I don't usually do but it was mostly dry by that time. I use a split fire brick in a baking pan. I think some of the water soaks into the brick and keeps the humidity longer. I can't prove that however. I have been reading that removing the steam and moisture helps the sides grow in the last part of the oven spring. I've always kind of crossed my eyes at that thought if you know what I mean. SteveB has a nice write up on his blog which I can't locate at the moment.
Another thing that I think helps is that I hand mixed it. No need for a mixer and I got good development.
Eric
The write-up can be found here:
http://www.breadcetera.com/?p=83
SteveB
But I still get hungry looking at those rye breads.
Since you cannot fax me a slice, I'm adding this to my baking agenda for next weekend! Hmmmm .... Can I wait 'til then?
David
Hi, Eric.
I always remove the steam. I do so relatively earlier with rye breads than with wheat sourdoughs, for example.
I think Hamelman talks about how much steam to use for different breads. As I recall, Greenstein talks about steaming rye bread for the first 5 minutes only.
David
Not necessarily a good assumption! :)
SteveB
www.breadcetera.com
David
David, no snark was intended... I was just having a little fun. Sorry if my post didn't read with the playfulness that was intended.
In a previous post, I listed the 4 or 5 things that contribute to the oven spring I get. I was just trying to point out that it was not just the steaming that gets me there.
SteveB
www.breadcetera.com
I took your comment as you intended. I responded in the same spirit.
A little fun is a good thing. If you can't get a lot of fun.
David
Steve,
I wanted to go back and read your comments on the things that contribute to spring. I looked on your blog and searched here but can't locate that post. You and I seem to be on the same page with most things, I'd be curious what you wrote.
Yes on the humor BTW.
Eric
PS: Where about in the Boston area do you call home? I lived in Marblehead and Salem for a while years ago. Really hated to leave.
Eric, the post to which I was referring is located here, entitled "The Not-So-Secret Secret":
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8450/40-rye-hamelman#comment-43153
SteveB
www.breadcetera.com
P.S. - Although I use Boston as a reference point, I'm actually on the South Shore, not too far from the Cape.
Those are all good points. I couldn't agree with you more about hand mixing. I see you also have a DLX or the earlier version. I love the DLX when I use it for larger batches which I often do. But, you can't beat the knowledge gained from mixing/kneading and folding by hand.
I'm still learning the secret of knowing when to bake and when to wait a while. I've never had much luck with the finger poke method. To make matters worse there are times that 15 minutes proofing will work. At the moment I'm using 45-60 minutes if the temps are about right.
I used to fly out of Hyannis when I worked for Air New England. Now that's a nice place for clam chowder and sourdough.
Eric
Nice looking loaves. Glad my comments were of value to you.
SteveB
www.breadcetera.com
That crust is gorgeous! weavershouse
Looks beeeeautiful there Eric. Félicitations... bravo, bravo.
I did this one last week. I'll blog it when I get around to continuing the rye series I've started.
I've got Hamelman's light rye rising as I type (no caraway). I looked at this post too late (went to do it before, but got sidetracked) and didn't read the secrets before I started BUT I did hand kneed (haven't used the mixer in ages). For the rest, I'll tight shape, but I can't do the covered steam. My oven does well with steam though and since the receipe calles for lowering the oven, I can sacrifice some heat and open to let the steam out.
I add powdered gluten to all these rye recipes because we don't have high gluten flour here. I don't know if it helps as much as it should. I put 2 tbsp and the flower is 11% protein.
Jane
Jane,
Thank you for your kind words. It is a very nice style of bread and smells hearty coming from the oven.
I don't have much experience with adding vital wheat gluten. I have been getting good performance from the Harvest King AP flour I use. Looking forward to seeing yours.
Eric