Rustic Baguettes made with Nury's Light Rye Dough
Rustic Baguettes made with Nury Light Rye dough
Rustic Baguettes Crumb made with Nury Light Rye dough
As promised, I made some baguettes using Nury's Light Rye dough from Daniel Leader's "Local Breads." I followed Leader's recipe except for using a couple tablespoons less water, thinking it might work better for baguettes. In hindsight, I don't think this improved the product.
For those not familiar with the recipe, it is documented in Zolablue's original posting of her baking of this bread.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/5500/pierre-nury’s-rustic-light-rye-leader
This was an excellent thread. It led me to make this bread myself for the first time, and it remains one of my very favorites.
Leader's recipe calls for patting out the mass of fermented dough into a 10 x 10 inch rectangle, cutting it in half with a bench knife and gently transferring the cut pieces to floured parchment, then immediately baking it on a stone with steam. For these "baguettes," I simply sliced off 3 portions, about 2.5 cm wide each, and stretched them gently to 12 inches as I laid them on the parchment. I baked with steam at 500F for 10 minutes, then removed the skillet and loaf pan with the water and turned down the oven to 440F. The bake time was 17-20 minutes, total.
The baguettes are beautiful, in a very rustic way. The crust was very nicely crunchy, and the crumb was chewy. The taste was wonderful, as it always is with this recipe. The main difference between these baguettes and the "proper" Nury Light Rye is that the baguettes have proportionally much more crust, and the crust stays crisp rather than softening.
My efforts to make traditional baguettes will continue, but this version is one I'll be making again.
David
Comments
I also made a pizza margherita with the rest of the dough.
The tomatoes and basel were from my garden. I used fresh mozzarella from a local Italian deli and freshly grated parmesan.
Not beautiful, but very tasty.
Pizza made with Nury's Light Rye Dough
Piece of Pizza made with Nury's Light Rye Dough
David
David
Looks so good I want some right now! and it's only 6:45 AM - I have GOT to get back to making some good rustic breads and pizza. Great job as always.
Trish
David
Love the baguettes David. Beautiful! I always double the Nury's recipe so next time I'll make half into baguettes. Did you check the temperature when you took them out of the oven? Nury's is usually baked till the crust is very dark. Do you think this would make a difference in taste? Well, then again, baguettes are always on the light side aren't they?
What more are you looking for in your quest for the perfect baguette?
I've made pizza with the dough and it was delicious. Yours look sooo good! Tomatoes from your garden already???!! I have the basil, I have the cheese but tomatoes...not for a long time.
Great job, as usual, David. I knew you would do it well. weavershouse
For once, I didn't check the temperature of the bread. In fact, they probably could have been taken out of the oven 5 minutes sooner. I think the inside was well cooked, but I wanted a crunchier crust.
This morning, I had baguette, sliced longways, with butter and apricot preserves. Yummy! The crust was no longer crisp. It was very chewy, but I think that's inevitable with sourdough baguettes.
I still want to make a classic parisian baguette, just for the satisfaction and to develop my dough-handling skills. But the truth is I like eating these rustic baguettes way more than the traditional ones.
Re. tomatoes: We've had some 100F days, and my tomatoes are setting and ripening like crazy. We have ripened Early Girls and cherry tomatoes. My Romas may not be so good this year. The others, which were planted two weeks earlier, have had such exuberant growth they are over-shadowing the Romas. Even my basel, which usually grows to small shrub-size, is struggling for its share of the sunlight.
David
Do you have the great fortune to live in one of those mild climes where tomatoes can be expected in June?
If not - I'll need to ask for your secrets for such an early harvest! I'm "stuck" with sweet onions and thyme for my weekly pizza...
Great looking bread!
Cheers!
Hi, Pat.
Fresno's weather is not often described as "mild," at least in the Summer. But we sure can grow fruits and vegatables here.
My secret is to stick the plants in the ground and make sure they get watered. Then, stand back or they'll swallow you up. I'll have tomatoes from the 2nd week in June until some time in October.
For a point of reference: My daffodils bloomed the 3rd week in February, just about the time Winter was settling into the northern States.
David
Ah! The miracle of California.
No need for the coldframes, wall-o-waters, poly tunnels and constant vigilance that it takes to grow those early salads here at a mile high.
Well, stay cool!
David,
Your baguettes and pizza look terrific. As usual you've hit another one out of the park...make that two out of the park. The pizza looks delicious with the fresh tomatoes and basil.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
As usual, you're too kind.
My own assessment, based on eating them, is that the baguettes are winners, especially when first cooled. As has been observed, this recipe allows one to come home from a day's work and have fresh-baked bread for dinner. That would be a strong recommendation, even if the bread were not as delicious.
The pizza dough was good, but this is not my idea of the ideal pizza dough. (I have no complaints about the toppings! There is nothing like a vine-ripened, fresh-picked tomato.) Since my wife is a real pizza lover, I'll keep searching for a dough I like better. Probably the one Floyd posted, from Peter Reinhart, will be the next candidate.
Were you not making Nury's rye yourself last week? How did yours turn out? I sure hope Jane's warning about it being addicting didn't scare you off! ;-)
Speaking of which, Jane did a nice write up on the Nury Light Rye on her own blog.
http://www.aulevain.canalblog.com/
It would be so funny if Nury's bread became the rage among French home bakers because of the recipe in an American cookbook. I guess bread is becoming globalized like other elements of the culture.
David
David
David,
Yes, I did make the Nury rye and had a few problems with it. Maybe you would be kind enough to give me your thoughts on what happened to me and where I went off track. I have a couple of photos (showing crust and crumb) but haven't pulled them off the memory stick yet. In the meantime maybe if I describe the symptoms you could diagnose the problem.
First, I appreciate you posting the Zolablue link. I read it before I started and it was very helpful. In it she said she had a problem with her dough not rising sufficiently during the initial fermentation period (Leader calls for approx. 3 hrs). She said it took her dough approx. 17 hours to rise and because it didn't rise sufficently in the the 3 hr. period specified by Leader she put it in a closet which was cool (60 deg. as I recall) and said that after 17 hours it finally doubled. She never did retard it, just baked. If I understood her correctly, she said she went from fermentation directly to baking. As I recall, I thought the photos in her post showed good results.
Anyway, I had the same problem Zolablue described. I mixed up the dough and did the folds exactly as Leader instructed and, like Zolablue, mine took about 17 hours in a cool place to double in volume, instead of the 3 hours Leader calls for in the recipe. However, unlike Zolablue, I didn't bake right away. After my initial 17, or so, hour fermentation the dough had doubled in volume, I retarded it overnight, took it out the next morning and let it come to room temp. (approx. 3 hrs) and shaped it into 10" X 10" square, being careful not to lose any more air than necessary, divided in half, gently stretched each loaf to 12 ", as instructed, and baked it. They came out pretty good. The crust was good but I didn't have a nice open crumb. Not nearly as nice as you and Jane get. The taste was excellent. It's really a nice bread with excellent flavor. I had previously frozen and saved a couple of pieces of Hammelmans light rye and Charlene (my wife) and I tried, as best we could, to compare the Hammelman light rye with Leader's light rye. Leader's Nury rye reminds me somewhat of the Hammelman light rye, only without carraway seeds. It wasn't a fair comparison because they aren't identical in their makeup. I've decided I'll save some of the Leader Nury rye and later on bake the Hammelman light rye (sans carraway seeds) and compare the two. Incidentally, I think Hammelman over does it with the carraway seeds. I think, if you're using the seeds, they could be cut in half to 1 1/4 Tbs instead of 2 1/2 Tbs. Sorry, I'm drifting on you. Anyway, that's what happened to me with Leader's Nury light rye recipe.
I was thinking one of my problems might have been my starter not being active enough and with Leader adding the salt and the levain to the dough at the same time, after the 20 min. autolyse, maybe that could have adversely affected an already marginal starter. Anyway, I would really appreciate any thoughts you might have on the problems I encountered. If you need to see the pics I will pull them off the memory stick on Monday and post them. I wasn't going to post them but I will if it will help you see the problem better. Thanks in advance for reading this. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
You mentioned that it would be "funny if Nury's bread became the rage among French home bakers because of the recipe in an American cookbook". That got me thinking about what Jane said the other day in one of her posts re: there being no place to take classes in France, only apprenticeship. Sounds like they need a good baking school over there like the San Franciso Baking Institute (did I get the name right?). This constantly evolving internet is changing the way we do just about everything. It's akin to Gutenberg inventing the printing press, only I think the impact will ultimately be on a scale never before imaginable. Meanwhile, back at the ranch :-)
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Howard, I have been following this thread, and thinking about baking the Nury's Light Rye. As an abject beginner with this bread, I would like to see your photos. I've never successfully formed a baguette in my life. Thinking about trying a new recipe and a new shape at the same time is a little intimidating. This is where I end up looking at some of the breads in this thread from folks who have baked it so often. I know you have struggled with the baugette -- so let's see, let's see! It will give me courage.
Mary
I just posted some photos of the Nury rye bread. As I told Jane they're really not baguettes in the true sense of the word. Baguettes are an entirely different process. One thing you should consider, if you want to make baguettes, is watching a video of how it's done. Here's a link to the Julia Child/Danielle Forestier video.
http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/meet/forestier.html
Ms. Forestier was trained in France and knows what she's doing. I think, for what it's worth, most of the really good baguettes are made using a poolish. Anyway, this video is a good place to get started before you attempt some of the other more complicated baguette processes. I'm certainly no expert but from my limited experience with baguettes the secret is in the delicate handling of the dough through multiple steps; dividing and initial shaping and final shaping, etc. I find the best approach for me is to find a proven recipe and do it over and over until you really "own" the process. It really is necessary that you develop a feel for the texture of the dough. Ms. Forestier does it by hand and that's a very good way to start. Hey, give it a try. Many bakers believe the baguette is the most difficult loaf to make..when made correctly. Like proth5 said recently, it's about doing each step as best you can do it to achieve a good final result. Best of luck on your baguette journey. Keep us posted on how it goes.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
I'd seen references to that particular video before and haven't looked at it. I will do so now, but closer to when I am going to try baking baguettes. This will be a while, and I've got a couple of other things coming up. Thanks also for the encouragement -- it will help a lot.
Mary
Hey there! Hectic week and now hubby's gone away for another week. But it is summer holidays, so things are slower paced.
Just catching up on some posts, here. Thanks for the comment on my blog, David. I'm hoping some people who try the recipe will write me about their results.
Some words on the bread. I've never actually read Zolablue's post about it. I just found the recipe and did it. I never worried about the dough doubling. I do as it is said , kneed, 1 hr rest, fold, 1 hr rest, fold and then after 2-3 hrs in the fridge. It is always risen but I never pay attention to HOW risen. i'm not a very scientific person. And I know that it will keep rising in the fridge, so I figure what difference does it make if it doubles before it goes in, it will in the the fridge. The next morning it is always pushing against the plastic. There is very little handling so the bubbles stay. So, Howard, I really can't imagine what went wrong, why you didn't get the big holes. I also tend to under kneed this dough even though the recipe says NOT to. But, I remain convinced that I can't give you any advice since the flour is different.
Oh, yah, I forgot to say also that I once made this bread without the night in the fridge and it was NOT nearly as good. There was none of that great flavor developement, so just in case someone thought they could do it faster and skip it... it just isn't the same!
So, David, I think your pizza is beautiful. Me and my love for non-symetrical forms. I figure that as a pizza crust it must be a little too chewy, no? Great taste, though. I think I'd like it better as bruschetta, a little crispy.
And the baguettes look great, too. Very rustic, asymetrical beauty! Ha ha
Jane
Forgive me for not remembering who posted Zolablue's link. Anyway, Mary had asked me to post some photos of my bread. These aren't baguette in the true sense of the word. They're not really shaped, just cut after bulk fermentation and stretched into a 12 inch loaf. You can see where they were cut. There really isn't much handling of this dough. I would welcome any comments, suggestions, critique, etc.
As I said earlier, I did not get a good open crumb. The interior was much tighter than either yours or David's. Only tbing I can think of is my starter wasn't refreshed enough. I didn't do Leader's levain, maybe I should have. I used my refreshed starter to make a firm levain. I'll give it another go and make sure I do a number of refreshes to my starter to make sure it is really active when I make the levain.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
and don't pay too much attention to the doubling. Time and time again, he repeats in the directions that there is little or no rise. I started the levain from a firm starter 8pm and 8am the next morning put eveything together. I did notice the dough changing as the folds went on, getting spongier. I refrigerated it anyway after the last fold. The following day, did my bake.
Good pictures but your bread isn't ugly enough. (he he he)
Mini O
Appreciate your comments. I'll keep at it until i figure out the crumb.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
I know it doesn't have the crumb you want yet but you'll get it. When I make this it rises fast, more than he says it will....I don't know why. Wish I could help you but someone here will. Still nice bread and you said it has good flavor so you can enjoy the experiment. Think I'll start a batch tonight and make some into baguettes. weavershouse
Appreciate your kind words and encouragement. As you said, it's a matter of keeping at it until it comes our right. I remember Zolablue, in her posting, saying she had problems with some other items e.g. timings in other recipes from Mr. Leaders book. Regardless, his book is excellent and after thinking about it for a day or so I think my starter is a little puny. I really love doing these experiments. Wonder what happened to Mark Sinclair who used to post regularly and was in the process of opening his bakery. He hasn't posted for the longest time. His videos were a great help to me, especally his video on how to shape rolls. I just made a batch of his sticky buns day before yesterday and they're so good. He must be really busy getting his bakery up and running.
Hope all is well and I'm Looking forward to seeing your baguettes. Please show us some pics, if you can.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
maybe you'd like to e-mail him..have you checked out his site? (contact info there). I though his videos were great too and his sticky buns are the best!
http://thebackhomebakery.com/index.html
Paddy,
That's a good idea, I'll send him an e-mail. I really miss his posts. He posted a short post to someone else a week or so ago, with a suggeston about a problem they were having and I chimed in to say hello but nothing else from him other than the one post. Guess he's busy getting his bakery up and running.
I completely agree with you, his videos are great and his recipe for sticky buns make the best sticky buns I've ever tasted. I have been baking them using a large, heavy baking pan with high sides and handles, which I bought years ago for roasting and it's a little difficult getting a pan under it when they get turned over and set out for cooling (because of the handles that stick up on each end. The pan size is perfect (15 1/2" X 11 1/2") but the sides are 4" inches high. So, after my last batch I made a big note to buy a lower-sided pan so I can flip them over and out of the pan without a problem.
Mark Sinclair's Sticky Buns
Thanks again,
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Hi Howard,
I watched the sticky bun video and thought, hmmmm, I must do that one very soon! I also noticed that he is going to take his recipes off his web site very soon, so we better go note them all quickly!
The videos were good. I don't work with such firm dough that often. It gave a really good idea of handling and shaping.... now I'd like to see the same thing with a wetter, flasker dough. It's a lot harder!
I made baguettes again... great taste, still not happy.... sigh....
Jane
Thanks for letting me know that Mark is going to remove his recipes from his site. I'll go there and get the Portugese rolls. Mark is the one who really set me straight about how to shape rolls. Watching him shape rolls is like watching an accomplished pianist warm up. I suspect he will, at some point, pull the videos too. I suggested he package the videos and sell them.
As far as the dough for the sticky buns is concerned, it's an enriched dough loaded with butter but it's a direct method with an hour rise time. It might be interesting to try using something like a croissant or brioch dough. One thing I would definitely recommend if you make the recipe is to cut the "spread" volume back to 2/3. In my opinion it overpowers the flavorings in the dough; orange zest and honey. Other than that one small thing they're great, no question about it.
Keep at the baguettes, I'll do the same and post something soon.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
As far as cinnamon or sticky roll dough is concerned the BEST I have EVER tried is the Bread Bible recipe for Monkey bread. I just took that basic dough and made chocolate buns with it and I also made simple "pains au lait". Anyone who has ever tasted it has said it was to die for. I made ones with her more brioche-type dough and didn't like it very much. It made the buns too light and rich. I like the breadier texture... but that is personal taste. It's you who told me to make her sticky buns, no? My memory is foggy, but anyway... her book is great.
OK, we've seriously gone off topic...
David, you'll have to make Nury's light rye cinnamon sticky buns!!!! ;-)
Jane
"David, you'll have to make Nury's light rye cinnamon sticky buns!!!!"
I think that's just below "Banana-tuna fish soufle." (See "Must Bake List," pg. 71.)
David
Jane, I have Rose Levy's Bread Bible and will put the Monkey bread on my "to do" list. You're right, Yes, her Sticky Caramel Buns are great, a bit more complicated than Marks recipe but well worth the effort. Her book is first class. I make her ciabatti regularly.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Hi Howard, Jane, Mini, Weavershouse.
If you read through Zolablue's whole blog exchange on this bread, you see that the rising varied greatly from baker to baker. For me, every single time, it has risen more and faster than Leader ... errrr ... leads you to expect. I don't know if it's the starter, mixing technique or what. I never could figure that out.
I would try following the recipe as to the levain to try for a more open crumb. It sounds as if you did everything else well.
Otherwise, I can only agree with Mini: You must work to enhance the ugliness. They should have spots that look absolutely charred. (Those are the ones you apologize for to your SO and guests and, at great personal sacrifice, serve yourself. ' Cause they're the parts that taste best!)
Jane, You're correct. The pizza was very chewy. You're right again - great taste. I thought you would like the knobby look.
David
I'll try following the levain recipe, as you suggested.,,and keep fiddling with it. And as you and Mini auggested, I'll try for more uglness...a more charred effect. Seems every type of bread has it own little characteristics that come with trial and error. Meantime, back to the levain :-)
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Just a note here again about making this bread. I realized while I was reading your posts that when I make the initial firm starter, I skip making a firm white starter to use in the recipe firm starter. The night before making the dough, I make a firm starter using white and rye. I don't bother with the whole wheat. I don't even measure the ingredients. Then the next morning, because I make it basically the same size each time, that gives me around 200g of starter and using that 200g I either double the Nury's recipe or I do my bigger bread version of it (with more rye). So, I'm just saying this because I think it means that the technique is more important than the actual perfect proportion of ingredients. The first time I made it I even missed the part that you aren't supposed to put the entire firm levain in the dough, only 125g (I think) and it probably just rose faster but the result was not noticeably different.
Mini, you reminded me of that note in the recipe about not worrying if it doesn't rise much during the initial rise. That's why I never paid any attention to the amount of rise.
Howard, I'm sure the only think lacking in your bread is the open crumb. But otherwise it looks great and I'm sure the taste is there. That's what's funny about bread recipes. If you hadn't seen the other results with big holes, you probably would have found it fabulous, no? But, do try and get the black warts and holes... you'll have a certain satisfaction! Ha ha ha!
Jane
Jane,
Really appreciate you taking the time to post. I'll print out your suggestions and follow them next go round. I was thinking about dividing the dough into two seperate pieces before the bulk fermentation instead of doing one batch then dividing it in order to minimize handling. Instead, I think I'll do what you do and make a large loaf instead of dividing it and see how the crumb comes out and try not mixing it so much with the mixer at the initial stage, maybe do it by hand. Thanks again.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Hi Howard,
If you follow the recipe as is, but put the dough in the fridge before it has fully risen, then dump is gently on the counter, cut in two, pull and drop, you really should have no problem. There is hardly any handling. Like you said, it's good to master a particular recipe. I really think you should try and get good results really doing as the recipe says before playing around. This recipe definitely lends itself to being modified, but you should get it perfect at least once. There is no reason it shouldn't work for you as is.
Jane
Jane,
Good morning (at least on this side of the pond). Excellent advice. I promise not to fiddle around with the recipe until I fully understand the process and get good results. I'll do what you suggest, put the dough in the fridge before it fully rises and then, after taking it out of the fridge, dump it onto the counter, divide and shape ...and handle the dough as little as possible with great care. Many thanks.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
So, I promised pizza for lunch and totally forgot to make the pizza dough... but had a bowl of my "almost Nury's rye" rising on the counter. So, I figured, hey, I'll give it a try! David's looked good!
It didn't have the over night rise which in the end was better, I think. The pizza was incredible! It wasn't really chewy like it might have been had I left it over night. Even Margot, who'll be one on Sunday attacked it.
The first pizza is a goat cheese and honey... a family favorite (cream, goat cheese, fresh thyme, honey and grated emmenthal).
The second is tomato, cheese and basil.
Oh yah, and my baking stone is great for pizza!!!
Thanks for the idea, David
Jane
Jane,
They look great. You did good, very good...and vry interesting sounding toppings, especially the goat cheese and honey. I sometimes mix goat cheese with garlic and fresh herbs and use the mixture to stuff chicken breasts. I really like taste goat cheese.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Thanks Howard! I forgot to say that it was the log goat cheese wrapped in paper. The kind with a skin and creamy center, not the fresh stuff that is sold in a mound or pot.
Jane
Jane,
I truly miss not being able to get really great cheeses including aged chevre and the one you mentioned. I can order them on-line but they're verrry expensive. When I attended cooking school in Paris (way back) and walked to school, I used to walk past one of the neighborhood restaurants that had a nice back yard area where they placed their chevres on tables near the kitchen door on trays to firm up. It was mostly the small rounds and small pyramids shapes. Once in a while I would go to the local cheese store and treat myself to one of those delicious little, very firm, aged chevres.
Without getting too far off subject, I lived in Passy, in a very small apartment. That wonderful experience is still burned into my memory. Like the American writer Ernest Hemmingway said: "If you are lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man, then wherever you go for the rest of your life it stays with you, for Paris is a movable feast".
Keep baking those great breads and pizzas and sharing the photos with us.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL