Vermont SD Redux using AP instead of Bread Flour
Last week I posted my first run of the Hamelman Vermont SD as baguettes. Quite happy with the results. But a recent thread started by ifaey about problems with higher protein baguettes had me rethinking my own run.
The formula calls for a virtually all bread flour (90%) formula to which I applied 3 Letter Folds during the bulk rise. It seems that "all" of Mr Hamelman's breads use "bread flour" rather than AP flour, so when his formula states "bread flour" I take that literally.
My change here, aside from adding other shapes, was to replace all of the non-levain Bread Flour with AP flour so that the dough would more closely resemble T55 French flour based dough. I still used the 125% hydration bread flour levain which accounts for 15% of the overall flour component. I also backed down 1 Letter Fold, from 3 to 2 in an effort to provide a little less "strength" to the dough.
One significant difference I noticed during French Folds was that this dough was more extensible and less "rubbery". And that continued on through the Letter Folds and into final shaping as well. And strangely, although both runs are 65% overall hydration, this batch seemed wetter, by a fair margin.
I corrected my one lament from the prior run in that I did bake these a shade darker.
- 620g x 1 batard
- 375g x 1 baguette
- 250g x 4 batard-ettes
alan
Comments
outer appearance, but how did the changes in flour and technique impact the flavour and the crumb? It looks like you got your usual great oven-spring, and there obviously was no difficulty in getting your preferred dark bake, so did it really make much difference?
I'm always using Canadian grains and flours, which seem to all be ridiculously high in protein, and have wondered whether ordering in some lower protein flour might be worthwhile if I should ever get skilled enough in dough-handling to attempt a baguette...
As always, great bake - and keep baking happy!
Laurie
than what I pretty much do for everything, just how the dough handled. Which I found surprisingly different from the all Bread Flour version. I'm not so sure that I discern a different flavor, although the crust had a distinct crunch to it, perhaps from the darker bake. The little guys plumped up delightfully large considering their diminutive profile when they hit the baking deck. However all that remained for us was that one lonely baguette. All of the others were pre-designated for other gullets.
Have you ever heard of the Pearson's Square? Being that you have helped with the calving season, perhaps so. Anyway it is a tool used to calculate different feed protein amounts for livestock. But some ingenious type used it for calculating protein in flours. I've used it for adding VWG to bread flour in order get somewhere's near the protein % in First Clear flour. But it should be able to be used downward to lower protein amounts when you mix your flours with something like a cake flour. Just how much of which is the question.
Here is the write-up that I initially used. Don't let the bagel discussion dissuade you from reading about the square.
thanks, alan
cattle (with alfalfa, which is counted as "grass fed") so I haven't run in to a situation of having to calculate the protein for their feed --- and haven't seen that Parson's Square before, either! That's a really cool method - I've always just used ye olde algebra to figure out how much of what I would need to average out to a specific attribute (I guess I'm showing my age, here).
I do use a fair amount of soft white winter wheat berries in my baking (muffins and cakes and things that I want to be fluffy), so could definitely see including that with a higher protein AP to get a lower gluten content bread. I've never actually followed someone's recipe so far (somewhat close, but not with the same flours in the same percentages), and have never tried to calculate the overall protein in one of my loaves --- maybe I should try one or the other of those options one of these days!
Thanks for the great info - your assistance and patience are always appreciated! You are obviously generous by nature - and those other gullets receiving all of those other loaves are very fortunate folks!
Take care - and keep baking happy!
I'm guessing with the AP flour the crumb was more open too. They sure look tempting! I'm never putting on a corn starch glaze before baking ever again, I learned my lesson - the crust tasted weird. Afterwards is fine.
Well done and happy baking Alan
I tried to be mindful of employing slightly less downward pressure on all phases of the final shaping so as to see whether that would lead to a more open crumb. Not so sure that anything changed, not that I'm unhappy with that. After all, this is a 65% hydration dough, so I'm not really expecting a very open crumb anyway. Considering the oven spring that I get, I know that the crumb is opening up and I'm content with that knowledge alone. Thanks, The Don
I suspect that the switch to AP flour was the source of all of your observed differences: less protein for the same liquid will make the dough seem like it is at a higher hydration; fewer folds=less gluten development and combined with the AP flour allows more expansion and a greater loaf volume; AP flour may also be the source of the crisper crust either due to less competing protein or just a little more starch (or perhaps better gelatinization).
I am a little surprised that the 620g batard was done with volume expansion at the same time as a 250g baguette. It takes quite a bit longer for the heat to get into the center of the larger diameter loaf and expand the cell volume. If the loaf has already reached final volume, then I would expect the crumb to be less open for the larger loaf as the eventual expansion of the cells in the center will just compress the cell volume further out after the loaf stops expanding.
as to why the AP was wetter. I didn't know, but assumed that was the case. Although a majority of those reporting their bulk rise folds on TFL do many folds and perhaps too often and probably more than necessary, Mr. Hamelman usually (so far as I've read up to now) generally advocates for no more than 1 or 2 folds during the bulk rise. I understand that his instructions are geared toward the professional baker with larger fermenting tubs than anything we have or need at home, but he does not make any distinction or observation for the home baker in this regard.
As far as the steaming of the two distinct sized doughs - I checked at 5 minutes as mentioned, but not again until the timer, reset to an additional 8 minutes, had gone off. I doubt that the baby and larger batards all completed their bloom at the same time. More than likely there was a gap in time between the two completing their oven spring.
says that dough should not ferment more than 90 min at room temperature without being folded, and it certainly sounds like that applies to his small quantity recipes as well as the commercial scale formulae. But he is using a commercial mixer to prep the dough and he seems to encourage slightly undermixing and then fixing it during bulk fermentation.
It has taken a long time to be able to even detect the small differences in dough texture and behaviour that seem to be the indicators of how close you are to full gluten development. I still can't see the color difference that he says should be there. For a long time I was not leaving any allowance for the additional handling associated with dividing and shaping. I now advocate that new bakers run a batch until the dough really breaks down. Until you do that I am not sure how you come to learn how far you are from that point in the course of your "normal" mixing regimen.
As usual, gorgeous but that goes without saying ! Btw you ought to take a look at ifays thread on the bouabsa and take a gander at bikeprof's snaps - holy moly !
Just interject here on strong flours which I know hammelman prefers or suggests for French bread, but today I reverted to a bag of central milling t70 French knock off. What I have come to realize that with stronger flour the scores seem to be the most affected element. Personally I don't think bread or ap makes a significant difference to crumb. Actually king Arthur has a blog that shows two loaves baked side-by-side with so and bread. The crumb looks mostly identical and they point out only that the bread flour loaf rose about 1/4 inch higher. The biggest difference I have noticed is for the tendency of the crust to stretch as opposed to burst. You can feel this if you form a window pane - the dough feels like a thick rubber band whereas an ap though still elastic is more like a thin rubber band. But just to concur with what both you and docdough mention about hydration, for me today, using a stinger flour and basically the usual 70-72% hydration that I go with - I definitely felt as though the dough was dryer more resistant. I was a bit disappointed today with the crumb and would otherwise increase hydration the stinger the flour :\