Buttermilk Cluster

looks great
Remarkably similar to a traditional Ukranian sweet bread called stuffed with sweetened cottage cheese called boluchkie though it is not made with buttermilk but cream.

Floydm--I baked this last weekend and it was fabulous. I topped the rolls with stell-cut Irish oats, and my family went nuts for them. I'm making them again today to have with soup for dinner tonight--thanks for the recipe and the great photos!

Nancy

Wow!!!!  All the pics are wonderful!!!  I'm gonna have to try this recipe.  YUMM-O!!!

These were the first recipe that I tried from this site in time for Canadian thanksgiving in October.

Mine were very appreciated by the guests and looked wonderful.  I also used buttermilk powder, which was a gift from someone coming to mexico from the states.

Thank you Floyd for the great recipe. 

How many loaves would it make?

 Thanks,

Trish

Butter bread: I love this butter bread.  I think this is good for appetizer for almost everything.  The crust is so delicious! This is the second bread I bake and it turned out perfect!

take a bite!

I made this today. It came out really good. Only my fourth try working with dough, two of the other times were making pizza dough.

Anyway, my dough was initially too dry, I added about 3 addtional ounces of water to be able to work the dough properly.

I was really happy with the bread, I topped it with sesame seads. I think it could have baked maybe 5 minutes or so more, the crust was perfect, but had a slightly yeasty/doughy tasting crumb. Although the texture seemed perfect. Maybe I'm not used to eating such fresh bread.

But after it fully cooled, that yeasty taste went away. Am I correct in thinking it should have baked a little more? I should have stuck a thermometer in it, oh well, next time. This bread was pretty easy to make.

Hi all-

I'd just your thoughts on an overnight retard of the buttermilk cluster. I was thinking maybe I could put the rolls in the fridge after the first rise and when it's formed. I'd like to be able to pull it out the next morning, let it warm up and rise and then bake. Do you think this would work?

TIA for your ideas...

Trish in Omaha

Stumbled upon the site while looking for help with a kneading bowl.  Astounded by the assistance I've received and totally fascinated by everything!  Haven't totally figured out how to move around, but I'll get there.

Spotted this recipe while exploring.  Really, it was the pictures that made me drool - and just had to have some.  Reminded me of Mom's.  They weren't great but good enough to enjoy and strive for better the next time.  Here are some questions:

• These had great texture but were tough.  Any basic reasons why bread gets tough?
• Is there a purpose for the glaze aside from keeping the toppings in place?  I wiped the tops with soft butter when they came out of the oven, just like Mom used to do.
• Many of the recipes I've viewed use 425 temps.  Had to come down to 350 (my norm) half way through the baking as the tops were on their way to deep brown.  Why such high temps?
• What is the purpose of water in a pan in the oven?  Know it wasn't mentioned in this recipe but for some reason, I remembered it and placed it in there.  Did that contribute to the toughness?
• These rose to over 3 inches - beautiful, but way too much for use as a sandwich bun (hamburger or something).  Any way to get 1 1/2 (approx) inch height or isn't this an appropriate recipe for such?
• Finally, how do I add pictures to my comments? 

Any help will be appreciated.  By the way, I keep dry buttermilk on hand, so that was used.  These were kneaded by hand and baked in a 9x13 cake pan.  I also made fresh fig jam yesterday, so guess what my dessert consisted of?  (I've got a wicked grin on my face right now.)  Finding y'all is not going to be good for my waistline! 

Micki

Like others, I had to add quite a bit extra buttermilk, about 1/2 C. The dough was still very stiff - as stiff, or stiffer than bagel dough even - so I was worried that they would be too tough. But they rose beautifully (I shaped and let slow rise in the fridge overnight) and baked up perfectly. They had a nice, well browned crust on top and had a soft and perfect crumb. I topped them with a combo of flax and sesame seeds which I think looked nice.

Thanks for the recipe. I'm fairly new to bread baking so this was a great recipe to find in time for the holidays.

Cheers!

Brake for Bread

It was beautiful. I used the last bit of a bag of bread flour - a little less than 6 cups, and threw in a loose 1/2 cup of whole wheat flower, and a teaspoon of wheat germ for good measure. The added wheat gave it a rich flavor that I thought really added to the buttermilk taste. My audience seemed to agree! The bread was gone in about 20 minutes!

Ten Mintues later:

Sorry for the poor quality pictures. My camera batteries are dead and I took these with my cell phone camera.

It

It came out a little dense, but I'm sure it's because I'm a newbie and I also added 3 Tbsp of Vital Wheat Gluten. Tastes great though and I'm enjoying the buns with steak and salad tonight.

I started it the night before since our kitchen is pretty busy on Thanksgiving day.  I made up the rolls and let them rise for just a few minutes, then refrigerated them until the turkey came out of the oven.  Then I put on the wash and some sesame seeds and baked the rolls.  They were ready just as the rest of the meal went to the table. 

Thank you floydm for a wonderful recipe.  These came out light and tasty, and baked up to a beautiful golden color.  Here are a couple of pictures of the results.

and

We had some left over since we were only three for dinner this year, but I may make these again at Christmas when the whole family will be together.

adjustments, especially if you use bread flour.  With AP you might need a few grams more, but I would not start out that way.  I think you will be able to tell if you hand-knead a few strokes before bulk fermentation.  Add a little flour if you have doubts at that point.  I used the bread flour called for and followed the recipe as described, and I think I could have formed a free-form loaf with my dough as it was, without adjustments.

Good luck, and come back to let us know how it turned out.  Happy Thanksgiving!

OldWoodenSpoon

That looks awesome! oh dear. 

I would be honored to add my latest foret into baking to this thread. I made a practice run of the Cluster that I plan to bring to a pot luck later in the week. After some playing with the dough to bring it from to dry to to wet to just right, I proofed in the oven after pre-warming it for 30 sec at 400*. I made the butter milk using the whole milk and lemon juice method so am glad that it worked great. This is my new go to bread recipe for parties and special dinners.....

Thanks for sharing. I made some fromage frais late last week and decided to use this recipe to make some bread with the leftover buttermilk.

If anyone is interested, it also makes fantastic dipping toasts/croutons. We had a wee bit leftover that was past its best. I sliced it finely, brushed with olive oil and sprinkled with salt and pepper and re-baked them, which also brought out the taste of the sesame seeds . One of the best things I've tasted in a long time!

I just made these tonight.

First I measured out 6 cups of flour - then I weighed it. What I found is that my 6 cups weighed over 850g instead of the 750g listed and so I had to remove quite a bit of flour from the bowl. Once I did that, the dough was just right, not too dry with a little over 1 3/4c buttermilk. I also used instant yeast and so did not use any water.
I also found that at 425 degrees, the tops of the rolls got very dark very fast and I think in the future I would drop the temp a little. However, the texture was great - very light and fluffy.

Lastly, I didn't find them to have a lot of flavor; somewhat bland. Perhaps more honey or some sugar next time?

I just baked this as a practice round for thanksgiving, where I'm supposed to bring the bread.   I saw the picture on the front page and had to try it.   Delicious and gorgeous.   I wish everything I made came out this way.   The only problem for my test drive is that the bottom came out a little hard.   I could say that I should cook it a bit less than 30 minutes, but I don't think that it would be cooked enough.   I have so little experience with this kind of bread that I don't know what correction to make.   I followed instructions above completely, but ended up having to add a bit more water on top of the 2 cups of buttermilk - no more than a quarter cup.  

Have noticed several comments here about the dough being too tough, overly dense, under-proofed,etc. I'm making these rolls for Thanksgiving, and know that I will have to be prepared to adjust the moisture based on the feel of the dough as it comes together in order to get it right.

The great and brilliant Danielle Forestier said it best when it comes to bread recipes: "There is no formula for water." In this case, that would cover buttermilk, or in any liquid, whatever recipe you're using.

Her lesson -- and I have learned to take it seriously after years of experimenting -- is that the measurement for flour should be treated as an exact requirement while the liquid can adjust up or down within a very broad range.

This is where the feel you have developed for the dough becomes critical. There is no exact amount; it totally depends on the hydration of the flour (which varies much more than I ever imagined). The only way to know when you have added enough is by literally touching the dough and feeling if it is in the right range for the kind of bread you want to make. It's art! If the dough feels tough and unyielding, it's too dry, regardless of what the recipes says. (Unless you're making bagel or something else that calls for a very stiff dough.)

This is why we love bread-baking, yes?

Good morning all...

I have been eyeing this recipe for some time and finally decided to try it last nite, for today's Thanksgiving Dinner. BTW, Bravo to all you folks who test recipes before the 'big day'. I never do and just hope for the best. i figure others can learn from my mistakes if it gets messed up. And ok it's immediate family only so no need to impress : )

I have absolutely no idea how this will come out. I made it in my Viking Stand Mixer as one of my last recipes of the nite. So the verdict will come to you all later this evening!

I read and re-read all comments before starting. Then I just made what I hope were a combination of good changes (?) along the way. Funny I've read so many comments and books about building flavor and character that i can't remember what process, goes with what bread type. So my thoughts may be way off base, feel free to laugh, and then please educate me. : )

Starting with Floyd's original recipe I stuck to the recommended amount of flour; using a little over 6C. I didn't have bread flour so I used KAF all purpose.

I have no idea if this will help with tenderness; but I SIFTED all of the flour before I began. (Gosh it looks like silk once sifted) anyway, no, I didn't re-measure I just went with that amount. I used the SAF Red Instant Yeast... so I didn't moisten the yeast I just added it at the beginning with dry ingredients.

And utilizing what I gathered from the comments I changed the liquid amount. I decided to go 2 full cups of buttermilk. (Oh remind me to post on authentic buttermilk in new topic - so much easier than you would imagine if you use a stand mix.) I used store bought buttermilk for this. I also used two Tablespoons of Honey instead of one, hoping to counteract the 'blandness folks wrote about.

Now I'm a 'year old' newbie to bread baking and that is intermittent at best. So my thoughts may not be correct, I will definitely post after we, hopefully, devour it...OR after we laugh, about the brick I made ~time will tell. 

Because it was so late at nite I did the first 90 minute proofing as you normally would. It did not double in bulk, about 1/3 I'd say at best, it was smooth but heavy! (This is the texture it was after kneading with dough hook after initial mix)

Then I kneaded a tiny bit by hand using the 'folding' technique you use with French bread (hoping to add flavorful character)? I cut into 12 pieces (no weighing, just by eye). I rolled them and placed in a PAM sprayed round cake pan.

Ok I was falling asleep, so skipping the next 45 mins rise before cooking I proofed in fridge overnite....covered it with a damp cloth first and went to bed. (actual fridge time 6 hours.) Took it out this morning and was pleasantly surprised at the rising that took place. Prior to this it hardly proofed at all.

Now it is sitting on the stovetop with a large bowl over it. I don't want to cook until last minute, so it will sit there until 1pm (yikes) PLEASE DO TELL if this is a mistake. Then I thought I'd cook it while turkey is 'setting'.

My family doesn't like poppy, sesame... or any of what I call great toppings, I'll glaze and conservatively sprinkle with sugar before cooking. Please respond with tips, advice, oh no's, etc I'd love to hear from you. Thank you bread baking family, the only other group I'm not concerned about failing in front of. We all learn from each other right! : )))

God Bless, I'll keep you posted and welcome your comments.

-gardenchef

I rarely buy buttermilk as I only need a cup or two of it then the rest goes bad.  In the past I've frozen left over buttermilk to use as needed but finally got to the point of why bother.  I bought buttermilk solid powder now.  For this recipe I substituted condenced milk and added some buttermilk powder.  It was awesome.

I opened a can of tomato soup and that was my dinner.

Just beautiful!I'm going to try them soon.

Thanks for sharing the photos and recipe!

I bake my first BBQ pork fillings pumpkin milk cluster last night. This plate is the electric pot lid.

It's very good looking bread. I like it so much.

Thanks for this good idea!

 Happylina

Looks perfect, and the texture is, too...

I subbed kefir for buttermilk -- could this be why there is almost no taste to this pretty bread?

Replaced the yeast in this recipe with one cup of sourdough starter and utilized the basic substitution process (added 2/3 of the amount of flour called for, then the liquid).  Let it sit overnight; added the rest of the flour, honey, salt, etc; kneaded it into a ball and let it rise for about 6 hours the next day.  The crumb was beautiful and shreddable and soft -- a real testament to the sometimes unorthodox sourdough substitution!  It was a show stopper at my dinner party the next day.  Thanks again.

we absolutely loved it!

and it baked with no problems in my small Breville oven...

I include a photo here, and for those interested in the full blog entry, here it is

http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2011/05/24/buttermilk-cluster/

I tried this, starting the process the day before yesterday and leaving the dough to rise in the fridge overnight. I went to bed late and got up early (only about 6 hours sleep - poor me!) and was amused to find the rampant dough making a bid for freedom over all sides of the large bowl it had barely half filled the night before. Still, I punched it down, kneeded for a second time and made my small rolls. I found I had to work quickly because they were not keeping their round shape while I was rolling the next, flattening slightly before my eyes. I only have a large flat sheet or two 8" loaf tins to chooses from, so I made two loaves out of a collection of small rolls, hoping to still get that lovely look on top. Using a sharp knife to slice of pieces I was delighted to see large irregular bubbles forming, and I tried to handle as little as possible. The first tin I used what I felt was just enough dough, then used the remainder in the second tin, which turned out to be a little over half. I skipped the egg wash... I'm sure I'm being silly but I always feel it's a waste of an egg. I usually use water, butter or a little olive oil... this time I went for the olive oil.

Then I had to go to work, so I popped them back in the fridge and left the house for another 6 hours before heading back to work from home. I found that the first loaf had risen nicely to fill the loaf tin, and the second (of course) had begun to ooze over the sides. I baked them anyway, allowing them to come to room temperature first.

I didn't get much spring, if any at all. I'm yet to discover where I'm going wrong with this as I don't think I've ever achieved it. Perhaps it's my oven. More likely it's my method.

The bread had a lovely flavour and texture, though it was a little denser than I had hoped. The crusts were great all round, and of course the monster second loaf was gripping the edge of it's tin with it's bulging crust. Slicing this one I find I have a brilliant mushroom shaped slice!

So, I still have the same old problems I always have; sticky dough (whatever recipe I follow I find the dough incredibly sticky to work with, and end up adding an enormous amount of flour during the kneeding process) and little or no spring. Are these related perhaps? If I can find a way to work with my dough without adding so much flour perhaps my bread will be lighter?

Finally, my fussy eating boyfriend loves this bread more than my last. Result. Thanks Floyd!

Floyd, I had looked at these rolls with yearning for so long that I knew this year I was going to make them for Thanksgiving. I didn't read all the comments until I had already made my discovery that the dough was too dry. Thank you, LyndonDimont for the weight recipe!

Luckily, I am a very experienced baker, because here in DRY New Mexico, I knew to add a good deal more than an extra cup of buttermilk to 4 cups bread flour with 2 WW. The dough looks right now after kneading, which is smooth and soft.

Thank you, Floyd, for posting the recipe, and thanks to all who joined in about their experiences!

Patricia

I made these today, and they were delicious! Since my dutch oven is large enough to hold a 12" springform pan, I preheated it and started them under the lid. 15 minutes covered, and then 20 more uncovered, and they were beautifully springy with a tender crumb and a crust that was thin and light. Excellent! Will be made again for Christmas, even if it means taking my springform pan in my luggage. (Dutch oven will not be traveling with me, of course!)

These worked wonderfully for my contribution to the table on Thanksgiving.  I doubled the recipe and it worked out terrifically.  I would have taken pictures but I was too slow.  Tasty and really easy to get together.  I loved working with this dough.  Thanks and I hope  your Thanksgiving was as good as mine. 

This looks awesome! I gotta try this one...Can I substitute regular milk for Buttermilk? Will it make a difference?

Just made this bad boy. We're having it for dinner with some fried chicken.

I have 2 toddlers so it's impossible to knead bread with them around. I threw all the ingredients into the breadmaker. And I had to use buttermilk substitute since it would've only been used for this bread.  I had to add about 7tbsp of water while the machine was mixing the ingredients because of how dry the mix was.

It came out beautifully and I baked it for about 25mins. It sprung back but also it was turning too dark.

Had 1 cup of buttermilk to use up so halved this recipe.   The dough was a heavy mass and having no more buttermilk to add in I added a 1/4 cup of sourdough starter.  The rise was beautiful and the response was they were excellent. The question I have is was it o.k. to add the starter?  Should I have substituted something else?

I was concerned I'd added to much leavening.  I had the sourdough starter out to make some pizza dough so it was just handy to add.  Again thank you for your response. I think I'll make the starter a permanent addition.

I made this recipe for Thanksgiving dinner and just changed one thing - added 2 TBSP of butter.  They were light and fluffy and delicious!  Sorry I don't have pics but we ate them all!  I placed the rolls in a 9 x 13 pan and made 15 rolls (3 across 5 down the sides of a buttered glass pan.  Since I was using a glass baking dish I reduced the baking temperature by 25F and they were done exactly at the 30 minute mark.  Excellent rolls that reminded my friend, Carol, of the ones her mom used to make.  Thanks for the recipe.

Linda

I didn't make this recipe as written so I can't comment meaningfully on that, but just based on intuition and experience I added 4 tbsp. butter, 2 tbsp. sugar, and 1 tbsp. honey (2 total), and used the equivalent of two packages of yeast instead of one (1 1/2 tbsp.) to compensate for the extra sugar and fat. I used the egg wash to adhere seeds, then brushed with melted butter right out of the oven, and I lowered the baking temperature to 375 F, 425 is way too hot for dough with this level of enrichment. For me personally, I don't really agree with the set amount of flour and adjust the liquid philosophy with yeast breads (although it's fine for scones); I used the specified amount of liquid and then added as much flour as needed, which turned out to be about 4 cups. I did a 4x3 batch bake on a 1/2 sheet pan because I wanted something to use as burger buns for a barbecue, which worked really well, instead of a true "cluster".

I've been volunteered to make TG pies AND rolls! In the interest of streamlining  preparation, has anyone made these delicious rolls bulk retarding the dough overnight rather than retarding the shaped rolls?

It is a totally delicious recipe and everyone loves them.  Patsy