Rye madness
Following the most recently concluded einkorn experiments, I decided to plunge headlong into levain build experiments, but this time with rye.
One of my usual rye breads is a 45% dark rye bread, 75% hydration, with all the rye fermented for 11 hours in an overnight levain (thus PFF is also 45%). BF and proof the next day for 4-5 hours, baked on the same day.
I decided to bake two other rye breads for comparison. One in which the levain consists of a double build; the other in which I mix my starter (it's a 50/50 rye/AP 100% hydration) directly with all other ingredients, but proof the dough for the same amount of time that it takes for the other levain-built breads.
All three loaves are identical in terms of composition, i.e. 74% water, 45% dark rye, 55% bread flour, 1.25% salt. (And walnuts and cranberries. I cannot resist.) Total fermentation time was 16 hours at 20 degrees. All baked for 30 mins at 220 degrees.
My initial predictions were:
1) Straight starter loaf would be the most sour, followed by the double build levain, followed by the single build.
2) Straight starter loaf would have the most flavour, followed by the single build, and then the double build.
2) Straight starter dough would be harder to handle towards end of BF and shaping with more gluten degradation (since the bread flour is also fermented with SD from the start), potentially a soupy mess.
Composition details:
Straight starter loaf: Mixed 30g of starter with 97g of dark rye, 118g of bread flour, 155g of water, and 5g of salt. PFF is therefore 6.5%. Briefly gave this two folds and then went to bed. Two more folds in the morning before shaping. Dough was much looser by the time of shaping compared to other loaves. Baked 16 hours after initial mix.
Single build levain: Mixed 25g of starter with 97g of dark rye and 80g of water to make levain. Autolysed 120g of bread flour with 78g of water overnight. Levain left to ferment for 11 hours. Mixed everything together with 5g of salt to make final dough. Additional 5 hours of BF and proof.
Double build levain: Mixed 11g of starter with 33g of dark rye and 26g of water to make levain. Autolysed 123g of bread flour with 78g of water overnight. Levain left to ferment for 8 hours. To this levain, added 70g of dark rye and 60g of water then left to ferment for another 3 hours to double. Finally mixed with autolysed flour/water and 5g of salt to make final dough. Additional 5 hours of BF and proof.
Note: Both levains had reached the same height (i.e. equal rise) by the end of the 11 hours before mixing DT. I had hoped this would happen and was very surprised it actually happened.
Results:
The straight starter loaf spreaded out a little more and had less bloom. The double build appeared to have the most rise.
Crumb-wise, I think the straight starter's is the most beautiful. What do you think?
Differences in taste and bite:
The straight starter loaf was only very slightly more sour than the single build loaf. I liked it. The double build levain loaf was the least sour. If this is of interest to anyone: the final pH of the single build levain was 4.11 and of the double build levain 4.55.
The flavour of the straight starter loaf and single build loaf are really, really close. Extremely good. The double build levain loaf was a little...flatter? The husband who was subjected to a blind taste picked this out immediately.
The bite. Now, the bite was a little different. The straight starter loaf had a slightly better bite - somewhat more even, tender, a better mouthfeel, compared to the levain loaves.
So all in all, the winner this time was the straight starter loaf. This has really surprised me!
Comments
All three loaves look very inviting! I love this kind of experiment, and once in a while I even do one myself. I think your results fit in with this mental picture:
1. Longer fermentation tends to develop more flavor (and sometime more sourness). %PFF may be the same but some doughs had longer fermentation times on the average;
2. The double-build would have had the most yeast activity at the time of shape-and-proof, so it would tend to show the most oven spring;
3. Longer fermentation time tends to lead to more gluten deterioration so the straight starter loaf would have tended to spread the most, and the double-build the least.
The results fit this picture well, but I don't know how the mouth feel fits in. Also, with the high rye content of 45% , maybe it's a little lucky the straight starter loaf was able to hold up as well as it did.
Thanks for telling is about the experiment!
TomP
Thanks, TomP! Yes, your mental picture is spot on. In terms of fermentation times:
Straight starter loaf: All rye and bread flour fermented for 16 hours
Single build levain loaf: All rye fermented for 16 hours, bread flour fermented for 5 hours (autolysed for the other 11 hours)
Double build levain: 1/3 rye fermented for 16 hours, 2/3 rye fermented for 8 hours, bread flour fermented for 5 hours (autolysed for the other 11 hours)
The flavour difference between the straight starter loaf and the single build levain loaf was only very slight, and could come down to a matter of preference, whereas the difference in flavour between the double build levain loaf and the others was really clear. That's interesting. This means it made more of a difference in terms of flavour when 15% of the flour (whole grain rye) was fermented for 8 hours less, compared to when 55% of the flour (white bread flour) was fermented for 11 hours less. Perhaps one could say: always opt for longer fermentation of whole grain flours wherever possible, or autolyse your white flours if you aren't fermenting them in the meantime?? To test which is more accurate, I should have added two more loaves: a single build levain loaf in which the bread flour was not autolysed, and a single build levain loaf in which it is the white flour that is in the levain and the rye that is mixed into the final dough. But there's only so much rye bread that we can eat in one go....
In terms of bread texture - I wonder if SD fermentation compared to just autolyse of the bread flour contributed to a better texture. Does more gluten breakdown result in a more tender crumb texture? No idea. But it certainly resulted in a very loose dough. Indeed I was worried that this dough would be soup after 16 hours of fermentation at 20 degrees, but it wasn't close to it, actually. There was still strength. But the spread in the oven was definitely more significant than the others.
Thanks for reading the lengthy post and glad you enjoyed it.
I think both apply. Time while hydrated improves the flavor, and time during fermentation improves it even more. Of course, if you are going for long fermentation, your flour had better be able to hold up well!
TomP
fantastic experiment, Lin.
I've done two recent experiments with my go-to 45% rye -- comparing a single-build sourdough of all the rye with an identical sour (I fermented enough for 2 loaves & split the levain) that got a yeast kicker added in the final mix. Confounding my expectations, both times the yeasted dough rose slightly less than the sourdough but t'was a flatter loaf with far, far better flavor.
Now, I guess I have to do a yeasted vs straight starter (what many call the jailbreak method) experiment. Plus one that adds yeast to the straight starter dough perhaps 2 hours before baking.
Thanks for this enlightening and encouraging write-up.
Rob
How interesting, Rob. I remember you writing that the combi loaves have better flavour (and better texture, if I recall correctly) but I didn't note the difference in rise. I wonder why the combi loaves would have less rise. Have you encountered this in other types of combi loaves, or is it peculiar to the rye loaves?
When I've done combi loaves I've actually done it the other way round with more IDY than SD, say 35% PFF in a 12-hr poolish, and 15% PFF in SD. (I know it's not conventional!) I usually do these with high % white flour breads (>75%) and if I want big holes in the crumb. They do taste marvellous.
Would be curious to know how your next experiments go. Really curious to know what you think of the straight starter loaf. I was never a fan, I must say, until yesterday - it was always too sour for me. Maybe it helped that my mother starter had been refreshed the day before. Or maybe my starter has become a different creature over the months that I have not employed this method and is now proving to me what it can also do.
A year or so ago, I compared a jailbreak pain de campagne (85% bread flour/10%whole wheat/5% rye, I think) with one that followed the recipe & used a levain. The jailbreak bread was quite a bit flatter (less gluten development?) but tasted so much better no one wanted to eat the recipe version. It wasn't sour. Rather, it was as if it brought out the complicated sweetness of the grains.
Rob
Sourness isn't inevitable. Hardly any of my bakes have more than a touch of sourness, unless there's been a long stay in the fridge. Even then I don't get San Franciso levels of sour. I've tried most of the standard recommendations for increasing sourness yet rarely get a really sour loaf. I don't really like a very sour bread - it's just that I think I ought to be able to produce one if I want.
I have had old discard produce very sour pancakes, though.