April 9, 2022 - 8:02am
Brainstorming a Rye Recipe
Ole and Steen is a Danish Bakery in London (and i'm sure in other parts of the UK too) which sells a variety of rye breads. Bought a Carrot Rye the other day which, as well as being absolutely delicious, has an excellent texture. That would be the role of the carrots. Thought I'd post a picture and description to see if we could brainstorm a recipe.
CARROT RYE
Made with rye and wheat flours, rye kernels, carrots, seeds and covered with oats.
Moist without being gummy. One would think there's malt in it but isn't listed in the description. I would think that is all in the bake. More salty than your usual wheat breads but only compliments it and really makes lovely toast.
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That would be altus style. I'm thinking of following a traditional Danish Rye and just adding carrots. Only question is how to add them? I'm assuming shredded but how much and how to alter the hydration.
It really is a marvellously textured rye.
We now have the rye and wheat percentages. I guess the rest like seeds and carrots can be to according to taste.
Assuming they follow the US convention of listing ingredients by mass, there are more carrots than seeds but less than rye kernels.
I'd think starting from a traditional recipe and estimating the mass of the carrots from that of the rye kernels could give you the amount.
I know people drink "carrot juice" but they have never struck me as particularly juicy. I wouldn't think they would change the hydration by much.
Carrot juice is delicious by the way, particularly if mixed with something more green-tasting, like apples or celery!
Carrots are 90% water, could be used for hydration of the dough. Is this another war time invention, like Danish cord?
Here is a closeup of a single slice. There appear to be lots of inclusions.
Nice looking bread! Sounds like it's delicious too.
I guess altus together with sweetness of carrots might give the maltiness you are describing.
I'd try doing a large rye preferment (e.g. 50% total flour prefermented), then adding the rest of the rye and the wheat flour, together with soaked kernels and seeds to the final dough, and of course the finely shredded carrots. Amount of kernels, seeds and carrots are tricky to guess... Probably quite a lot of all of them!
aren't added for flavour they certainly lend flavour. They definitely impart more than moisture and I agree that it may be coming through as maltiness when baked and especially when toasted. They do have a sweet earthy flavour and i'm sure they bring a malty taste with some caramelisation.
As for additions I like your idea of how to go about it. Thanks Ilya.
Hope you manage to reproduce it! I've never added carrots to bread, would be curious to try if you figure out a good recipe.
To a lot of his breads . Looking through some of his past bakes might give you a good starting point. I have used grated carrots in a lot of sweet breads and cakes and they actually are very wet so be aware and cut back on the water additions til sure about hydration. Look forward to the outcome. c
https://experience-fresh.panasonic.eu/recipe/carrot-sourdough-bread-with-seeds-recipe/
https://bosskitchen.com/rye-bread-with-carrots-and-yogurt/
https://nordicfoodliving.com/nordic-carrot-bread-with-sunflower-seeds-gulerodsbrud/
This might be a fun community bake...
Scalding or blanching or peeling to reduce the chances of introducing rope into the dough? (As with many root veggies.)
Cooked carrots vs raw? Mashed? Puree? Itty bitty cubes?
Carrot juice with pineapple juice is a lovely mix.
In any of the links I noted. Not familiar with “ rope” and have used grated raw carrots many times in other baked goods . I wish Ian would chime in as he grates raw vegs and uses all the time as I recall. A great community bake for sure.
The problem with cooking first is texture and flavor are really altered as well as the moisture. Will be awaiting the results of this post. If I was home would give it a go . May will be soonest.
Apologies for my delay in answering and not writing to each comment personally. Just had a plumbing incident and most of my flour, seeds, grains and even my scales are ruined and have been thrown out. This bake is very much still on the cards and will try some of your excellent ideas when i've stocked back up. After this ordeal i'm shattered so i'm going to call it a day and hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
Good idea Mary. If we all put our heads together i'm sure we can come up with a good recipe.
I'm quite liking a YW version with yoghurt, Caroline, even though the original recipe doesn't have yoghurt listed. I'm sure it'll work very well. Room for our own ideas. I was so surprised by the texture of this rye. Ordinarily if rye is this moist it's normally gummy but not so here. And thank you for posting those recipes.
Mini... this kinda bread is something I can imagine you making.
Sorry to hear about your plumbing incident Abe, that’s just awful. Hope things are fixed by now and that you’ll be back up and baking again soon.
Lost a lot of flour. All I have left is the one bag each of whole rye and whole wheat I kept in my fridge. All the other flours, seeds and grains had to be thrown away. Big shame. Hopefully I'll be back to baking soon but it is an awful waste and very annoying.
OMG so sorry this happened to you! Losing so much of the pantry must be very upsetting. Hope you build it all back up soon and get back to baking.
Everything cleaned up but now lack a lot of ingredients, scales and blender I use as a food processor. Got an idea but going to have to wing it. Went shopping today and we'll see what I can come up with.
Thank you, Ilya.
Ugh, so sorry about your plumbing disaster and loss of pantry goods! What a mess that must be, and likely not what you had planned on doing on the weekend. Hopefully you can get restocked quickly. I guess on the "bright" side, you won't have to worry about using up any older flour for a while, it will all be new. Wishing you the best!
But cupboard is now totally bare. Bought some flour today and have in mind a somewhat experimental bake i'll try do sanz any equipment. I wasn't prepared to save the scales nor the blender which I usually use for the recipe I have in mind. We'll see what I can do.
Thank you, Mary.
is almost identical to what you are looking for when you get your supplies together again. I am so sorry this has happened. We get attached to all our kitchen stuff !! It is a bread maker recipe but easily adapted and the ingredients look nearly identical . I would start there and then see what is needed for adjustment as far as not spending too much time getting it going. Just my thoughts c
It was you who posted those recipes. I was flustered and not quite sure why I thought it was Dave. This recipe is on hold for the time being but it'll give me more time to look at the recipes you have posted and formulate my plan. Right now i've got an off the cuff unmeasured buckwheat bread on the go. But of course once i've bought all the ingredients and i've invested in more scales i'll do this rye.
I would be completely discombobulated if the same accident had happened to all my supplies !! I look forward to yiour posts as always. c
I'd be gutted if I lost all my grain. I like the idea of adding carrots to a dense rye. I might play with it. The trick will be not making it gummy. hmmmm Easter is coming, carrot bread!
That’s a tragedy I wouldn’t be able to cope well with at all! I’m so sorry. Hoping the replacement of the items won’t be too difficult when the area is clear and ready to be restocked. c
Just thinking about all that waste annoys me. I'm cleaning up right now so hopefully I'll be back baking soon. Might have to go back to Ole and Steen or another bakery called Gail's which also had lovely breads.
I would guess ~80% hydration and 20-30% rye berries or rye chops based on the picture. Not sure how the carrots would factor into that though! I think Hamelman's vollkornbrot recipe would be a good starting point. Maybe substitute whole wheat for some of the rye and carrots for some of the water.
The color is really interesting to me. It's darker and more red than I'm used to in rye breads. Maybe it's just the carrots, though!
Of course Hamelman would have a recipe as a good place to start. Didn't think of checking. He does have a wealth of recipes and something is bound to be close.
This bread does look darker than one would expect for the flours used and no extracts. I expect that would be the carrots.
For the general proportion of carrots, it might be useful to consult isand66's excellent recipe for apple cider rye with white sweet potato -- https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/58427/apple-cider-rye-potato-bread. As Ian says in his write-up, the white variety of sweet potato has less moisture and sweetness than the orange and a rough texture and structure that's somewhat akin to carrots. I just skin them, grate the appropriate amount, and add them raw to the dough. It's a fantastic formula. I've made it many times and it has never disappointed.
Rob
Before the fiasco which saw me having to throw away most of the ingredients for this bake I had actually just bought some butternut squash which I thought might make a good substitute. Already prepared to be baked or grated. This bake is now on hold for the time being but that you for your guidance which has helped and for recommending another recipe.
plumbing accident, Abe. Sadly, these things happen and, for the most part, are beyond our control. Don't be too hard on yourself about it. I'm sure you'll restock over time and then turn your attention to the carrot rye. And in the meantime, your inspirational advice on this site will continue to be invaluable to all of us.
A thought for when that time comes: butternut squash, I'd wager, would be quite a bit sweeter and have less structural integrity than carrot -- so using it would produce a very different variety of rye.
Got an idea for a bake but i'm going to have to wing it. Lost my scales and blender I normally use for this recipe but have an idea.
As for the butternut squash it looks like i'll just be roasting it and having it for dinner sometime this week. Thanks for the heads up about substituting it place of the carrots. When I eventually try my hand at the rye i'll stick to what's called for.
You just mght surprise yourself. Sorry for your loss. Maybe the scales will work when completely dried out.
Back to carrots, forgot to ask which is your favourite color? <----(link)
Do we have to choose one favorite? Those hot pink and purple ones are awesome.
Put your scales in a bag of white rice. It works for phones.
They've gone. Time to invest in new stuff. In the meantime see below for my totally off the scales 100% sourdough buckwheat loaf. Worked a treat,
Sorry to hear about your plumbing nightmare.
l made a Weinhiem German Carrot bread when I was recipe testing for Stanley Ginsberg’s rye book. It used shredded carrots and seeds and was very tasty. I’m not sure it made it into the book but will have to look and see tomorrow.
I’ve made several multi-grain bakes using about 15% roasted carrots either cut into pieces or smashed up and they were fantastic adding a touch of sweetness and color. https://mookielovesbread.wordpress.com/2018/06/29/technicolor-carrot-bread/
Good to know! that carrots are versatile and can work many ways. I was just very surprised at the crumb and while they say carrots aren't added for taste I think they do add something other than texture (even though that's what they add it for). Very lovely bake as always and a carrot rye is definitely something i'd love to try. But for now here's my no measuring, off the cuff, throw in a bowl buckwheat sourdough with apple purée for texture. The final loaf is deceptively light even though the crumb is close. Rose very well in the oven almost like a wheat bread but has an almost bread/sponge texture. It also has yoghurt and olive oil.
Buckwheat Sourdough Bread.jpeg
That looks and sounds tasty. The rye I mentioned is in the book if your have it. If your don’t PM me.
I love applesauce in everything !! And as you know the yogurt/olive oil always works well. Glad you had such a nice off the cuff bake !! c
My favourite way to do buckwheat is with whole groats using the gel as a binder and for texture. Also with no starter allowing it to naturally ferment. But since my blender has gone it had to be flour except the flour doesn't produce the gel and it ends up crumbly. So while we were on the subject of carrots in bread I thought why not apple sauce? It also has psyllium husk powder as a binder and as you know i'm a yoghurt and olive oil convert. The resulting bread cuts beautifully with virtually no crumbs. The crumb is soft with almost sponge like quality and it toasts up very nicely.
I haven't ever baked with buckwheat groats or flour. So all that about gel etc is completely new to me and I haven't ever tried anything with a natural ferment . So you are definitely light years ahead. We eat soba noodles all the time that is my only buckwheat experience. if you make this bread again perhaps you can write a sketch down so that I might be able to experiment. Thank you !! c
when i'm back up and running with new equipment. In the meantime here's a write up of the naturally fermented buckwheat bread (no starter).
Can one do the naturally fermented batter bread with something other than buckwheat ? I know they aren't actually a grain like wheat etc. but it is a seed related to rhubarb. So maybe it gets that gel consistency like flax seed does. I appreciate the reminder of that bread. When I get home in May I shall give it a better look. Thank you ,c
But if it's a gluten free bake it needs that gel. So if you can think of a grain (or pseudograin) that behaves in the same way then it might very well work. Otherwise even if it ferments ok it could need a binder still. Buckwheat ferments easily though and it works very well.
I've no experience with gluten free and don't dare eat flax seed . I will do some more reading about all this before venturing in over my head :)
Health reasons? The add-ins in this recipe are optional. Flaxseeds aren't necessary as a binder. The gel can do that on it's own. You can leave it plain or add in whatever you want.
horrible digestive upset. I actually have to stay away from most whole seeds the past few years. Perhaps if they soaked and then ground as you did with the buckwheat they would be fine. More investigation needed for sure. Thanks Abe. c
With all the talk of carrots I decided to add them to my daily SD bread. At 10% they are pretty and add a bit of crunch but I can't taste them. I didn't notice any difference in the dough handling suggesting that hydration was altered by much.
I'll try 20% next bake.
I simply chopped the "matchstick" carrots we had into chunks about 1/2 the size of sunflower seeds and mixed them in.
The bread turned out softer than usual. Could the carrots have done that?
to my rye/bread flour dough. I picked out a good sized carrot, peeled it, and cut into chunks before chopping it to a pulp in my small electric chopper. Added a bit of water to help the chopper and then blended it into the dough liquids. Had a few pieces that were like little orange peas pop up in the dough. Picked out the bigger ones but the rest blended well into the crumb. Also threw in about 100g roasted chopped mixed nuts and since I didnt weigh anything other than the flour (500g) and salt, just kept adding water to the dough until it felt right. I started out with about 150g rye/wheat altus plus 200g water and a blob of mature rye starter fermented 21°C for 12 hrs then chilled for several days, a wonderful smelling preferment. Carrots contribute sugar and fiber so I skipped using malt. The preferment tasted sweet as well. Oh, and I added 7g instant yeast to the dough to get it up quickly and into the oven within 3 hours.
Nice moist tight crumb and the loaf baked 10 minutes sooner than normal. But heck, wasn't a stickler to the recipe either. Baked in oven using black alu. wok with second inverted wok as cover for first 30 minutes. Did get a normal rise and bread that is keeping its moisture well. Can't taste any carrot. Great open face sandwich bread or eat plain. Beautiful rich crumb colour.
I grated 100g carrots (20% of flour weight) used a 1-2-3 sourdough recipe (rye starter, rye/spelt build) with with wheat and spelt and it came out lovely (not a white bagguette) and if you close your eyes, tastes like a white baguette only better. I gave a piece to my husband in the dark and he exclaimed, "Best baguettes yet!" Bet you all want to see my ugly baggies.... ( Not all scores opened, and we cut up the ugliest one. :)
recipe: 180g peeking rye starter, 360g water, 540g (300g wheat bread flour or W700, 200g fine spelt flour, 40g fine grated mixed roasted nuts) 100g fine grated carrot, 10g salt, 1/2 teaspoon ground caraway, 10g active wheat malt. Kneaded the dough and did two folds during the rise before dividing into 3 408g loaves. Still can't taste the carrots but the color of the dough! Roasted nuts add a buttery flavour. Powerful rye starter. Started pulling my dough together at 2 pm by hand and by 5 pm they were in the oven. Kitchen temp 23.5 °C. Scoring was tragic. No biggie as they burst open and get cut up diagonally for the bread basket.
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