March 3, 2007 - 10:18pm
Converting bread machine to oven
Hi
I would like to know if there is anything special to do about converting bread machine recipes to a conventional oven. I know that bread machine yeast is a little different, but I don't know if this would really affect anything. Every once in a while, I see a recipe I would like to try, but don't, because I don't want to waste my time and ingredients. I don't mind purchasing and using bread machine yeast, as long as the end result can go into the oven.
Thanks, Lisa
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We have recipes that we switch from bread machine to semi-bread machine to hand as is most convenient, and they work fine[1]. Also we use "bread machine yeast" for all yeast recipes with no problem.
sPh
[1] Keeping in mind that the recipies that come in the booklet with the bread machine often contain a lot of sugar and/or fat; we usually reduce those amounts quite a bit no matter how we are making that recipe.
sPh -
I don't know why I'm having so much trouble wrapping my brain around this issue, but when you use bread machine yeast do you heat up the liquids you are adding to the dough, or do you just toss the yeast in with the other dry ingredients and add room temp liquids? I'd like to leave behind the cumbersome active dry yeast and its need to be soaked in warm water, but it's giving me anxiety. =) All the jars of bread machine yeast I find all say to add the yeast to the flour and then add hot liquids...
> I don't know why I'm having so much trouble wrapping my brain
> around this issue, but when you use bread machine yeast do you
> heat up the liquids you are adding to the dough, or do you just
> toss the yeast in with the other dry ingredients and add room
> temp liquids?
In my opinion, the reason you are having so much trouble is that the yeast manufactuers have outsmarted themselves, and done their customers a _huge_ disservice, by overcomplicating the number of types of yeast on store shelves. It is the old "segment the market and increase sales" game from Marketing 201, but segmentation only works when the customer already understands and trusts the market. As KA's Michael Jubinsky says, a 1/4 oz packet of yeast can make a grown man whimper in fear - so adding more confusion to that market would seem like a bad idea.
Anyway, here is what my research has found for the yeasts most commonly found in the central Midwest USA:
Fresh/moist yeast: not carried in most grocery stores any more. Needs to be dissolved in warm (105 deg.F) water with a pinch of sugar 5-10 minutes before use.
Active dry yeast: what most recipes call for. Instructions and recipes also call for it to be dissoved in water. I have not found this to be necessary.
Bread machine yeast: active dry yeast, perhaps in slightly smaller granules, plus a bit a citric acid to make it start growing faster in flour. Some might have a bit of diastatic malt or other natural enhancers as well. Doesn't have to be dissolved. This is what I use for everything: hand, bread machine, NYT, {insert your favorite method here}.
Rapid-rise yeast: like bread machine, except additional stuff added to make it possible to get a full rise in 1 hour. I seldom want a full rise in one hour, and when I do I use bread machine yeast and add some honey to the recipe, so I never buy this.
So - for now I use bread machine yeast for everything. If I had all day to bake I would try moist yeast to see if it tastes better, but I actually doubt it does (it is all the same strain of brewers' yeast after all). And I am wasting my time on a sourdough culture now anyway ;-)
YMMV based on what brands are available in your area.
sPh
That's the yeast I use. However, and perhaps this is because I still hydrate it before use, my breads take longer to rise than 1 hour, which is what I want. I was nervous at first when I used it, as I only used active dry yeast, but it works out fine. Maybe it's because my water is usually heated to 90 degrees, and not 100-105?
-C
I'm going to suck it up and stop stressing now. =) Thanks for all your info. I use my sourdough starter which I know and trust for almost everything, but you're right, the manufacturers have made commercial yeast way too complicated! Just give me one yeast that doesn't need to be soaked or heated and stop confusing me!
Christina - I'd love to buy Instant yeast (as it seems to be exactly what I'm looking for - no soaking or heating) but I can't find it ANYWHERE. So I'll go on faith that bread machine yeast will work the same. =)
> Christina - I'd love to buy Instant yeast (as it
> seems to be exactly what I'm looking for - no
> soaking or heating) but I can't find it ANYWHERE.
Most of the US manufacturers have relabled their "instant yeast" as "bread machine yeast". Same stuff, yet another useless marketing name ;-). Actually it is probably a good idea, as I would guess that that vast majority of homemade bread in the US today is made in bread machines, if they would just *not leave the old name on the market too*. Arrrugh.
As you said, that is enough yeast stressing for today.
sPh
sPH -- So "instant yeast" is more like "bread machine yeast" than "rapid-rise?" I guess that's why it works in my recipes w/o rising too quickly.
(btw, sorry to add more "stressing" to this topic =P)
-Christina
Kate -- funny you mentioned that! I purchase my yeast (and flour) at a local Amish store called Rentown. They have both active dry and instant yeast, and my mom told me just to go ahead and buy the instant, which was great that it worked since the package is pretty big! The huge plus to this is the price: 16 oz of yeast for 2.50 (I just googled it and that is a really good price. One site has it for 3.50, KA has it for 5.50, and that's not including shipping). Anyhow, you can purhase it online, or buy rapid-rise yeast from the store (since it's the same thing). The reason I don't buy yeast in the little packets is so I can control the amount of yeast I put in a recipe without worrying about opening a packet and only using half.
-Christina
Oh, and on the KA website, it says they use nothing but SAF Instant, which yeilds around 96 loaves. But I don't think it matters what sort of yeast you use as long as it works for you.
Anyhow, you can purhase it online, or buy rapid-rise yeast from the store (since it's the same thing).
I'm confused. I thought Instant Yeast and Rapid Rise were entirely different? Most recipes I come across (requiring long fermentation) say not to use Rapid Rise yeast at all.
and everything I've read said that instant yeast is another name for rapid rise. However, this one comment on chowhound.com says this, in reply to "is instant the same as rapid rise":
"No. The three common dessicated types are active dry, rapid rise, and instant.
Use less of the instant yeast if the recipe calls for rapid rise. Instant is a more potent form because the drying process kills fewer of the buggers. The dry particles are also smaller than active dry form, which means instant doesn't need to be prehydrated before kneading into dough. It can be mixed in with the dry ingredients, hence its name.
Rapid rise also should be added directly to your dry ingredients, but for a different reason. The yeast strain used grows so rapidly when hydrated, that you'd lose much of the outgassing action if you're in the habit of proofing your yeast for 5-10 minutes.
In any case, follow the directions on whichever brand you have. If it says not to proof, there's a reason."
So, yes, it is confusing... very confusing, but I don't think it is rapid-rise since I use instant exclusively and my breads don't rise rapidly.
-Christina
You will notice that I never make any unqualified statements on this yeast question, because the answer(s) vary from manfacturer to manufacturer, from country to country, and (I suspect) from marketing campaign to marketing campaign.
However, I interpret this information
http://www.breadworld.com/sciencehistory/yeast.asp
to mean that as of the time of the posting of this web page, for this manufacturer, bread machine yeast is a form of instant yeast - and neither is the same as rapid rise.
Of course, that may have changed by the time you click the link ;-)
sPh
This is where my confusion comes from! That darned bottle of Bread Machine Yeast says that if you add the yeast directly to the dry ingredients you need to add liquid that is 120 degrees to activate the yeast. But it doesn't sound like other people do this so I'm going to give it a shot...
> hat darned bottle of Bread Machine Yeast says that
> if you add the yeast directly to the dry ingredients
> you need to add liquid that is 120 degrees to
> activate the yeast.
That has not been my experience. But I say just go for it! You have only a few teaspoons of yeast to lose...
sPh
I have used a bread machine for more years than I can count. When I use yeast, I just buy active dry yeast in refrigerated, bulk bags from an Amish bulk food store. I throw in the amount called for in the recipe, and either let the bread mix and bake in the machine or I put it on the dough cycle and bake it in the oven.
When I don't use the machine, I just do what the recipe says to do with the yeast and use the very same yeast from the bulk bag. Sometimes the recipe says to proof in water, sometimes it says to throw it in with the dry ingredients. I use the same bulk yeast for anything calling for yeast. No problems so far.
I have taken any recipe, for no more than two pounds, that doesn't have special fermenting instructions and baked them in the bread machine and vice versa. Terry