The Fresh Loaf

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Sourdough Panettone

Benito's picture
Benito

Sourdough Panettone

I know panettone really does require quite a lot of planning and research as well as knowledge, so my first time doing it and attempting it last minute probably wasn’t going to turn out well for all involved.  On top of that, I didn’t use a well-regarded recipe.  Also, I didn’t create a LM and didn’t get good panettone flour.  So many strikes against this turning out well.

 

I did want to test out whether using a stiff sweet starter to create the levain could work to reduce the LAB and acidity.  My understanding of what characteristics of an ideal LM are completely lacking, so this is likely the first mistake and will have downstream consequences.  I decided to try this out anyhow, at least as a learning bake and getting my hands dirty in making a panettone.

 

Gluten Morgen on YouTube has a video that appealed to me because he used his active 80-90% hydration starter rather than a LM, and the panettone he produced looked good enough.  I think in retrospect one issue (I’m sure there are many) is that the primo impasto is only fermented to doubling before cold retard.  Perhaps if I had increased my fridge temperature to 5°C as his was, the primo might have increased to triple in the fridge.  Not that he said to use it once it had tripled, but many recipes I have since read suggest that.  So with the reduced microbial activity of my primo impasto, the final fermentation took an agonizingly long 24 hours.  However, because of the other two bakes I had going, I started the secondo impasto at a low temperature for several hours before putting it into the 84°F proofer.  Then when I had to go to bed, I dropped it down to 74°F in the fear of it overfermenting.  In the morning, I was able to increase the temperature, and it completed a rise to about 1” of the edge of the mold.

 

The panettone has now baked, and actually looks alright.  However, it feels a bit heavy for its size.  It may only look OK because it has huge tunnels in it though, which could explain its feeling of weight.  It is now hanging upside down and after 30 mins hasn’t fallen out of the mold.  I haven’t decided if I will bring this to a family gathering out of town yet or not.  If it falls out, I certainly will not.

 

Another issue was when I inverted it to place it upside down in a pot, the skewers weren’t strong enough to support the panettone and one broke and the panettone hit the bottom of the pot.  I was able to get it out and reskewered and inverted.  

 

I thought I would share my experiences since I am obviously just starting to learn a tiny bit.  I’m not sure I’m ready to go down the route of creating and maintaining a LM yet.

 

https://youtu.be/pb6LuJ6Yzvk?si=Keec-WsxS0CjODzu

 

Recipe makes 1kg dough right size for one of my moulds. 

 

Day 1 overnight stiff sweet starter build.

Stiff sweet starter build - needs 12 hour at 76-78ºF

Starter 9 g (80% hydration)  (water 4 g + flour 5 g)

white sugar 8 g

Water 11 g

Bread flour 24 g 

 

Initial pH 4.88 end pH 4.23 at 3x rise at 720 am day 2 morning

 

 

Day 2 morning 

Levain build

Stiff sweet starter 52 g

Water 50 g

Bread flour 52 g 

 

pH 4.93 at mixing. pH 4.1 near 3x rise

 

For the strong flour I added VWG to Robin Hood Bread Flour to bring it to 16% protein.

 

Dough weight: 1000 grs

Ingredients:

Primo Impasto - Day 2 afternoon

•⁠  ⁠(33%) First Dough - Strong Flour 16% protein: 95 g

•⁠  ⁠(50%) First Dough - Sourdough Levain: 145 g (80-90% hydration)

•⁠  ⁠(26%) First Dough - Eggs: 75 g

•⁠  ⁠(7%) First Dough - Sugar: 20 g

•⁠  ⁠(11%) First Dough - Butter: 32 g very soft

 

Secondo Impasto Day 3

- all of Primo Impasto and 

•⁠  ⁠(67%) Second Dough - Strong Flour 16% protein: 195 g

•⁠  ⁠(22%) Second Dough - Butter: 64 g very soft

•⁠  ⁠(26%) Second Dough - Sugar: 75 g

•⁠  ⁠(13%) Second Dough - Whole Egg: 38 g

•⁠  ⁠(16%) Second Dough - Egg Yolks: 46 g

•⁠  ⁠(7%) Second Dough - Honey (optional): 20 g and Vanilla 1 tsp 

•⁠  ⁠(2%) Second Dough - Salt: 5 g

•⁠  ⁠(33%) Second Dough - Chocolate or Raisins/sultanas: 95 g

•⁠  ⁠(9%) Second Dough - Rum: 26  g, will need more if using the raisins.

•⁠  ⁠(22%) Second Dough - Orange: 64 g

 

The consistency of the secondo impasto was firmer than I expected so I added an unmeasured amount of milk to it.  It is likely I over compensated for the protein and went too far by bringing it up to 16% protein.  Also, there are other characteristics of an ideal panettone flour that go beyond just protein that I don’t have a clue about with this flour.

 

Honey orange zest.

Zest the orange and add it to a small jar of honey 20 g along with the vanilla, stir and the zest will infuse the honey.  Prepare day before secondo impasto.

 

Soak the candied peel in rum overnight.

Chop the chocolate into chunks or use sultanas or raisins soaked in rum.

 

Glaze - prepare near end of final proof 

Powdered sugar 65 grs

Almond flour 32 grs

Corn starch 10 grs

Neutral oil 5 grs - I needed a bit more oil

Egg whites 25 grs - I needed a fair amount more egg whites otherwise it was too thick to spread.

 

Mix until smooth and use to top proofed dough prior to baking.

 

Primo Impasto - day two afternoon

For my Ankarsrum Assistent start with egg, then levain, cutting the levain.  Then add flour and mix, then continue as written.

In mixer add levain and flour then mix.  After a minute or two gradually add the egg.  After a minute add the sugar.  Once the gluten is moderately developed add the butter a pat at a time until fully incorporated. Complete with full gluten development.  

Remove dough for aliquot jar. 



pH at this point was 5.27

 

Shape into a boule and allow to double in size.  4-6 hours at 77°F (I will do 82°F).  Then cold retard until next day at 5°C. I didn’t increase my fridge temperature and left it at 3°C.  

 

Secondo Impasto - day three

Drain the fruit. Pat dry before adding to dough. 

Primo Impasto pH was now 4.23

 

Place Primo Impasto into mixing bowl along with the flour. Mix briefly then gradually add whole eggs.  Mix and then add ⅓ of the sugar and the egg yolks one by one.  Next add ⅓ of the sugar.  Mix a few minutes more and then add the rest of the sugar.  Once at least moderate gluten development  add the

 honey, vanilla and zest blend along with the salt.  Then gradually add the butter.  Mix to full gluten development, very important.

 

Next step will add the inclusions via lamination.  Lightly oil the countertop and stretch the dough out with lightly oiled hands.  Spread the inclusions on the dough.  Fold the dough over the inclusions until you form a mound.  Then do gentle French folds.  Aim to get a nice boule shape.  Next do pirlatura, in which you turn the dough in circles in one direction on a central axis quickly using lightly greased hands (can use butter for this). This tightens the dough giving it more tension to rise upwards. Then place in the mold. Cover with plastic wrap. 

 

Proof until the dough doubles in size.  It should be within 1” of the edge of the mold.  After final proof in mold - top with glaze using a small spatula and then top with some finishing sugar. 

 

Then bake 325°C convection for 40-45 mins for 500 g dough.  For 1 kg dough 350°F for 50-55 mins.  Check that internal temperature between 190-200°F. 

 

Once baking is complete the panettone needs to be hung upside down, so it will need to be skewered just above the base of the mold and can hang inside a large clean pot.  Using a clean pot ensures that you can still eat the panettone if it comes apart or out of the mold. Allow to cool upside down for a few hours or until the next day.

 

 

Baking temp 325°C (convection) 350°C no fan

 

Bake for 40-45 mins (this was for 500 g weight of dough) so may need a bit more time for 1 kg dough.

 

Comments

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Welcome aboard the Panettone train Benny!

That's an interesting recipe and approach, you've done well! I can understand how all the little extra steps and attention to detail can be a bit overwhelming first time round!

Thanks for recording the pH data, its interesting to note.


Here's to the next one!

Happy Christmas!


Michael

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Michael for your generous comments.  I'm happy enough with this first step in trying to bake panettone and realize that I should have planned better.  I will do another bake as some point for sure.  There is a lot to know and consider with baking these highly enriched breads.

In the meantime, I'm waiting to slice into this one and hope that it is edible.  I don't have high hopes, but I'm happy that it hasn't fallen out of the mold after being inverted for almost 10 hours now.

I'll follow up with photos of the crumb regardless of how good or bad it looks.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Benny

Alex Bois's picture
Alex Bois

Hey Benny, always appreciate your bakes! Looks like you had fun with this one despite the setbacks. Having baked a zillion panettone over the last 12 years or so using both traditional and myriad very non-traditional approaches, I would like to share my experiences seeking a low-fuss panettone if you're interested. Last year our ~300 panettone for production @ Lost Bread Co were made with a stiff sweet starter, but I can't recommend that approach for a two-dough product; as you discovered, the fermentation is unpredictable but always takes forever.  There are some advantages though, namely it's very hard to generate any acid whatsoever with this approach even if you leave a dough in the refrigerator for days. 

To achieve a similar, no acid effect with more robust fermentation, I front-load the first yellow dough with much of the sugar in my formula (45% by weight of the flour). The sudden and dramatic increase in osmotic stress will disable or destroy bacterial activity provided they are in exponential growth phase. It is not necessary to produce a full-on lievito madre to get decent results with this approach; any very active starter kept warm (82-84F) capable of hitting peak activity within 4 hours with a high seed % will make decent product. With that said, this year for production I followed roughly Ezio Marinato's approach (per the EIDB panettone book) to maintaining a LM and it was straightforward, low fuss and forgiving. LM dipped in flour and wrapped in plastic for overnight storage at 60-64F, then fed only twice at 4-hour intervals at 82F at 1:1:0.5 proportion before using (a third feed for overnight storage). No bagnetto--in fact, the two batches where I employed a bagnetto were markedly more sluggish. Had okay results with storing the LM at 42F over the weekend before feeding again, but better results simply adapting our production starter (normally kept at 60% hydration) in one step to 50% hydration and keeping at 60F overnight. No pH testing, great results even with our high extraction stoneground flour. LMK if you'd like our formula and I can copy it down.

 

Benito's picture
Benito

Hi Alex, thank you for you comments.  I love the idea of using a stiff sweet levain or starter.  As I was waiting for this panettone to cool today to dissect it, I was thinking about doing repeated refreshments of a stiff sweet starter and waiting for it to be able to triple in three hours before using it.  It might be worth testing to see if that could actually work.  I would be very interested in examining your recipes if you don’t mind taking the time to share them with me. 

I also love the idea you have of using most of the sugar for the panettone in the primo impasto, so similar to have a stiff sweet levain works so long as it is enough sugar concentration to have enough dehydrating effects on the LAB.

Now that I’ve dipped my toes into making panettone, I’d like to have a second go and hope it might be better than the first.

Happy Holidays.

Benny

Alex Bois's picture
Alex Bois

 

Yields 2x 1050g panettone. Flour used was freshly stone milled/bolted ~80% extraction hard red spring wheat (Glenn variety).

 

Final Yellow Dough   First Yellow Dough weight 
100% Bolted Spring 106g 100% Bolted Spring 324g
32% Sugar 34g 45% Sugar 146g
1.0% Salt 1g 1.4% Salt 5g
145% Egg Yolk 153g 90% Whole Egg 292g
20% Citrus Paste 21g      
36% Honey w/ Cherries 38g      
175% Soft Butter @ RT 185g 45% Soft Butter @ RT 146g
1000% Yellow Dough 1058g 45% Stiff Starter 146g

Add-Ins: Keep chocolate separate, remainder of spices/liquids/fruits are mixed together thoroughly and soaked overnight.

 

38g Honey
221g Dried Cherries
40g Preserved Lemon
25g Mix 1:1 Bourbon:Water
3g Vanilla Paste
1g Ground Cardamom

 

262g 1:1 Choco Mix

 (mix of milk chocolate feves and bittersweet chocolate drops)

For the citrus paste this year, I did 1:1 fresh bergamots to sugar by weight. Deseed citrus, then chill in freezer until frozen soft. Blend with chilled sugar until not quite smooth. I actually prefer using a higher proportion of citrus paste made from kumquats.

Alex Bois's picture
Alex Bois

Starter maintenance as described above.

First dough - mixing in planetary mixer:

-All ingredients besides butter should be refrigerated if your ambient temperature is higher than 70F. Refrigerate your mixing bowl and paddle if ambient temps are 75F and above. Dough hook will not be used. 

Set aside all of butter and 1/2 of sugar. Mix flour, starter, egg, salt, other half of sugar on low/stir until combined (2min). Mix on medium-low speed for 10min, then medium-high speed for 5min, then highest speed until a strong dough forms. Add other half of sugar, and mix on medium until a strong dough is formed again. Add all of butter and mix on medium-high until butter is absorbed and dough is strong, sheeting off the side of mixer.

Scale to volumetric containers and allow to nearly triple - should take 10-12hr at 82F. If your ambient temperature is above 75F, you should chill first dough in fridge when it has nearly tripled for ~2 hours before mixing second dough.

Mixing second dough in planetary mixer:

Refrigerate mixing bowl and paddle. Refrigerate egg yolks. Freeze flour, sugar and salt if ambient temperature is above 70F, otherwise refrigerate. Keep butter, chocolate and fruit soaker at (warm) room temp--around 78F is ideal.

Add first dough, flour, sugar, and salt to mixer. Mix on stir until combined (2min), then medium for 10min, medium-high for 5min, then highest speed until strong dough is formed. Add 1/3 of yolk, stir to combine and then mix on medium-high until dough is strong again. Repeat for next 1/3rd of yolk, and again for final 1/3rd. Add citrus paste and mix until very elastic. Add all butter at once and mix on medium-high until dough sheets cleanly from side of mixing bowl. Add fruit soaker and mix on low until somewhat distributed, then add chocolate and mix on stir to distribute. Scale dough into lightly oiled container and let rest ~2hr before shaping.

Shape using water into Novacart Panettone Paper Baking Mold 6-5/8" x 4-5/16" High. Allow to rise until center of dough peaks over mold, and sides of dough have risen to ~1 inch from edge of mold. This should take 10-12hr at 82F, but I much prefer to proof at lower temperatures allowing a 16-24hr rise. The cooler temperatures do not lead to any acid with this approach. The only acid present in the final product will be whatever has transferred over from your final starter build, as well as any acidic ingredients (citrus etc).

Score from edge to edge in an X. The score should deepen a bit towards the center of dough, and be quite shallow at the edges. Put a ~30g chunk of butter in middle of score. Bake with steam at 345F for 1hr. If your oven is very drafty, best to start at 300F for 30min and finish with 35-40min at 350F to allow for proper rise.

*Freshly-milled flours have not been oxidized via aging or other means, so you must mix the crap out of them to get good strength. Doughs made with freshly stone milled flours are very difficult to overmix, although you can certainly overheat them in the mix. Do not be afraid of overmixing. The same basic approach also works with strong roller milled bread/panettone flour.

Benito's picture
Benito

Alex thank you for sharing all of that with me, both your procedures and the recipe.  I’ll have a lot to think about for my next bake, perhaps between Christmas and new year.

Happy Holidays.

Benny

Benito's picture
Benito

So I don’t hate it, I don’t love it either.  It is hard not to focus on what didn’t go right instead of what went right.  I am happy that this didn’t turn out very acidic as I have had happen years ago when a dough fermented very slowly.  The crumb isn’t open and the texture isn’t as light and shreddable as it should be.  The lack of leavening power of the dough seemed to leave the fruit all down at the bottom of the loaf.  The bread is a bit denser there than it should be.

But again, it wasn’t a huge disaster as it could have been.  It stayed in the mold upside down without falling out and the flavour is actually quite nice.  My husband just said it was the best panettone flavour wise that he has had, so that’s good right?

SueVT's picture
SueVT

I'm so glad that you have started making panettone!! Woohoo!!🥳 

Yes, we aren't kidding about all those special requirements... LM, flour, etc etc... you get an appreciation for it when you try. I have Been There! 

Looks nice,, much nicer than my first X tries! The coyotes enjoyed many of my early bakes. Their numbers increased, so I had to improve my panettone, lol

It takes time, that's all. There isn't really a way around this, since a great deal of the result depends on techniques which are learned incrementally. Developing a good LM is important, but it is by no means the only thing!  Every step matters

Excited to see  your next panettone!!!

Regards, Sue

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you for the encouragement Sue.  Yes I have much to learn and hopefully we can find people to help eat the future panettoni as I learn.  There is no way that we could eat that much panettone.

Happy Holidays.

Benny

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Fantastic, Benny, congrats!

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Debra, I’m not sure it was fantastic, but I’ll take the it over the disaster I thought I was going to get!

Happy Holidays.

Benny

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Benny, it's fantastic that you've made the leap into panettone. And while no one masters it on their first try, yours looks lighter than most first tries. It's a very good place to start from. You can celebrate that :)

Benito's picture
Benito

That you for saying that Debra no have a tendency to focus on the negatives too much and forget the positives. 
Benny

Benito's picture
Benito

So taking some of what I learned from this first panettone, I have baked a second one using a more established formula by Giorilli.  I quite pleased with how it turned out so far without having sliced it open.  If you're interested here is the link to my second panettone.

Happy New Year

Benny