A Big(a) Controversy
A few years ago, I made Abel's excellent 90% biga loaf recipe, and it turned out really well. There's some pictures of my bake in that long thread.
I've made the same or similar biga based loaves since and they've never been as good - in terms of crust, ears, loft and crumb. What I've come to realise is that in my original loaf I made the biga the wrong way After that I read some more about bigas and started making the biga the right way
I define the wrong way as mixing the biga to a single cohesive lump (but without gluten development) and storing it as such. This can be done, even at 45% hydration, at least in a spiral mixer.
I define the right way as mixing for a shorter time, just to get those barely hydrated shreds, often with some dry flour left.
After mixing I stored the biga for 24 hours at 11-12C prior to use, so somewhat colder than a normal biga, which would be 16-18C.
In conclusion I think that mixing the biga "incorrectly" actually gives me better results than the proper method and I will continue to make it this way. Here's a picture of todays loaf:
Lance
Am intrigued by your results; your photo looks excellent. Good authors and teachers such as Hamelman have written that gluten development is NOT the goal in creating a biga. He also gives guidelines for matching yeast to time for biga development. I saw that the referenced recipe called for 3 grams of yeast. Renowned bakers such as Claus Meyer never use more than 2 g for a kilogram of flour.
Is it possible your biga succeeded at a colder temperature because of the dosage of yeast? Have you experimented with lesser amounts of yeast? Could a reduction in dosage yield the same results at 16-18C?
Hard not to commend your results, but there is usually more than one good method. Please let us know if you find the right dosage of yeast to deliver the same results at 16-18C and enjoy all your efforts.
My understanding of the biga is that, classically, it is always made with 1% fresh fresh yeast, so 0.33% or 0.4% idy, depending on your preferred fresh to instant conversion factor. See Giorilli's article here (in Italian). Michael Wilson, our own Italian baking expert, concurs: https://staffoflife.wordpress.com/biga/
I agree about not developing the gluten - I made sure that I didn't mix long enough to do that. My point is that I believe I am making better biga loaves by mixing to that single cohesive mass, rather than the supposedly correct "shreds".
The temperature may well be a factor and of course others may get different results to me. And 12C is an "in between" temperature, not always easy to maintain in the summer.
Lance
Lance, reading your post made me think how beneficial this forum is. You went off the reservation and went against the tide. Maybe you stumbled upon something that was not known before.
When such a large number of avid bakers, each working independently in their homes all around the world, innovation is inevitable.
God Bless the rebels and those that dare to think outside the box.
Danny
BTW -
That is one gorgeous bread you’ve got there...
Even though dark loaves are in vogue, I can’t imagine a more beautiful color than that one. You’ve captured my ideal.
Thank you Danny. I was looking at biga preparation on Youtube and it is interesting to watch a recent video from Giorilli. His biga isn't completely a cohesive mass, but it's certainly closer to one than the "shreds".
Lance
I had always done the cohesive mass--years of working with Jeffrey led me to define a good Biga as a stiff preferment (mid 50s for hydration). But then I worked with Ezio Marinato and watched him make his "vera Biga" which resembled something like cheese curds with even some loose flour.
Great bread can be made both ways and I have no doubt that in Italy there is great variance on this item. The one thing that I will say is that the curd-like Biga had an aroma which was decisively different than what I have come to know over many years and thousands of sniffs of Jeffrey's biga formulation.
Celebrating the differences,
Martin@KABC
A new member here. This is my introductions post
As you will see from my introductions post, what gave the confidence to start posting were some experiments with biga that have taken my sourdough to the next level, so I thought I would share here as they relate to the previous posts and may provide some further support for how to use biga most effectively.
I had dabbled with biga using commercial yeast, with OK, if unremarkable results. What motivated my latest biga experiments was a YouTube pizza-making video using a combination of poolish and biga which made me think of using a combination of my usual 100% hydration levain and a biga, both using my sourdough starter.
I had been wanting to try a biga using my sourdough starter instead of commercial yeast for a while, but reading various posts here on FL about it and people reporting unconvincing results, I was reluctant, so the idea of combining both the liquid levain and biga gave me confidence to do it.
The loaf I had in mind was 25% wholegrain rye, half of which I would use in the levain to feed the starter, and then 12.5% of white spelt which I was going to use entirely for a 50% hydration biga. The remainder of the flour was strong white flour (12% protein) and the overall hydration of the loaf 70%.
The reason for using the spelt for the biga was an Italian article (our family has connections there) about how biga had been developed when flour quality was not as uniform and bakers came up with ways of developing good gluten structure for loafs even if the flour used was not always as strong as necessary. So, going with my experience of spelt, where loaf formation is more difficult due to the gliadin, I wanted to see if the biga approach might conserve more of the spelt gluten and make for a more shapable loaf.
This view of biga as a method for dealing with weaker flour contradicted other readings, also here, about only using very strong flour for biga 'because the gluten has to survive a long fermentation. What I observed was that those advocating strong flour for biga were using what albacore here describes as the 'wrong' way of doing biga, which involved mixing it into a "single cohesive lump". My thinking was that, even if not fully forming the gluten, the single cohesive mass had much more gluten formation than what albacore describes as the 'right' way of mixing the biga "for a shorter time, just to get those barely hydrated shreds, often with some dry flour left". This also chimed with various pizzaiolos I had seen and spoken to in Italy who simply dissolved the yeast in a big sealable plastic tray with the 45-50% of water for the biga and then added the flour and simply swayed the tray side-to-side and backwards and forwards till the flour and water were very roughly incorporated and then used their fingers to gently mix up the flour and water a little more in a way that reminded me of how my mum used to make the crumble topping for apple crumble. The parts of the flour for the biga that were hydrated would be like very rough strands or the crumbs for crumble, with plenty of uncombined flour around so they don't stick and coalesce into clumps. It reminded me of the way one makes the batter for tempura mixing only with the chopsticks so I used chopsticks for the mixing which worked really well.
Once loosely combined in this way, I left the biga covered in a shallow square Tupperware type container I used for the mixing for about 24h at room temp. (around 19C) until the hydrated clumps got a slightly puffy and shiny and the mixture had a pleasant sour yeasty smell and then combined with the liquid wholegrain rye levain and other ingredients and proceeded to bulk fermentation with a number of stretch and folds.
The first thing I noticed was how quickly the bulk fermentation was progressing. The speed was what one would normally expect from commercial yeast, even instant yeast. It was going so quickly that I was not able to do the number of stretch and folds I was planning to do based on my liquid levain experience.
This then links to the second noticeable thing, which was how, despite fewer S&Fs, the gluten structure was much stronger than would have been with my liquid levain enabling a very comfortable final shaping, proofing, and transfer to dutch oven.
The bake was amazing! Superb smell, masses of oven spring, lovely 'ear' and crust. Lovely crumb when cut, and lovely taste and texture. Without doubt the best sourdough loaf of my 2+ years of baking.
Encouraged by the result, I decided for the next bake to go full-out with the biga and go for a 50% white spelt sourdough starter biga loaf with the rest strong white and no liquid levain. The sourdough starter (100% hydration) weight I used was 10% of the biga flour weight.
Previous spelt loafs had rise, but would spread out and be a little more flat than round when shaped as boules, so I was curious to see if these would hold their shape better. I added a small amount of diastatic malt powder as well, as the only slight blip in the experiment was that the crust was a little pale and I had noticed that pizza makers using biga would also add a little malt.
The BF was as fast, if not even faster than the first experiment combining both preferments. The structure and shaping just as easy and satisfying. Final shaping and proofing also trouble free and baking even more fragrant and with greater oven rise than experiment 1. Lovely crust as well this time with the malt powder.
The loaf was at a different level, even from the previous one in the experiment, in terms of texture, taste, crumb openness, colour and crunchiness of crust, oven rise etc.
So, all in all, I highly recommend this method of sourdough starter biga. Without doubt these are the best loafs I have made so far and the strength it gave the spelt and the speed it gives the BF are also very good. Mixing the biga is so easy and leaving it to do its own thing is also very convenient. It can also be left longer than 24h in the fridge. And being able to go from making the final dough to baking in a few hours is really handy. I am also very happy to finally have found a way of making such nice and well-formed loafs with a high spelt content as it makes a lovely tasting bread.
One final point. It seems many bakers who use biga also add diastatic malt to the BF. I concur with that. My feeling is that because the biga turbocharges the fermentation process, it uses up very fast the available sugars so it is necessary to make sure there is plenty of fuel for the bread to keep the right amount of sugars.
I hope this is useful to others and apologies for the long and maybe convoluted post. I have some photos of the loafs and can provide more details of the recipes if there is any interest.
RR
When you use it again, would you be so kind as to photograph the various steps so that we can see how things look along the way?
Thank you,
Paul
Of course, although I am slightly struggling to figure out how to get the photos of the loafs I wrote about in the posts at the moment :-/
About pictures, the bar of icons above the text box where you write your post has an icon "Media Browser" at its very right. Click that, then click "Choose File" and navigate to your picture file. When you have selected it, click on "Upload File". After that there are a few more selections to be made.
The image file has to be smaller than 2 MB, so you may have to resample your image first. There are several ways to do that in case you don't know yet.
Pro tip - before you insert a picture, hit the Enter key several times, then arrow up a few lines back to where you meant to put the picture. This makes sure that there will be a few blank lines after the picture that you can continue to type into.
TomP
Many thanks Tom
Helped get the photos up.
RR
I thought I would post the pics in real time as I make the next loaf.
This is day 1 (today), midday, having mixed up 200g of white spelt flour with 90g of water and 20g of liquid sourdough starter (100% hydration), unfed.
Actually, only had 180g of white spelt and so added 20g of wholegrain rye too.
It was a very firm paste . What are you expecting the dried crumble to do over the next 24 hrs ?
My next question is what’s the difference between a SD biga and a stiff levain?
Your biga is WAY drier and much much less starter per flour/water than I saw when researching. I’m completely intrigued now. Thank you for your documentation. c
What I am expecting now is for the hydrated shreds to start getting a little darker at first, the smell changing from floury/powdery to more yeasty/sour, and then, after the 24hs have passed, the shreds to have grown a little plump and shiny and the smell to have become more sour/yeasty, but in a really nice fresh way, as if you have the smell of your sourdough starter from the fridge when you open it, but somehow with hints of fresh cut grass and spring/flowers. Difficult to explain exactly. It is a very unique smell.
The main difference with the stiff levain, I think, would be that with these shaggy strands there is strong fermentation but virtually zero gluten, so what gluten you have in the flour is not already being degraded by the LAB. So when it comes to the bulk ferment, the gluten, even if not very much, is still there to strengthen the structure of the final dough and because the fermentation is strong, it does not spend so much time with the LAB getting degraded. That's my explanation to myself anyway.
The amount of starter you use depends on how long you want the biga to take to reach maturity. More starter (or commercial yeast) --> less time to maturity --> less character/flavour. With CY, the pizza makers I spoke to would use fresh yeast at a proportion of 1% of the weight of the full biga flour for a 24h biga at about 20C. The amount is tiny, which shows how this process amplifies the fermentation. Then I read someone had extrapolated from that, that 1% of commercial fresh yeast would be around 10% of 100% hydration sourdough starter and I used that for the experiment and it worked OK, so happy to stay with it.
Did you get that amount of starter mixed into the flour water ? I see the tiny clumps. A fork or dough whisk? I’ll give it a try . Thank you. This is all new territory and the info you read was obviously different. Glad to be learning something new.
I dissolved the 20g of SD starter into the 90g of water, then sprinkled the 200g of flour on top of the water, swayed the container backwards and forwards and side to side to get as much of the flour in touch with the water and then very very roughly used the chopstick to mix the flour and water around till these strands started to form, scraping the walls and bottom but leaving loose flour around too.
Mechanically you need to be avoiding anything that creates gluten. The opposite of when you are making the final dough.
A fork would be better than a dough whisk I think. I use the chopsticks because I had already used them when making tempura batter where you are again trying to avoid forming gluten and I thought it would also work in this case.
Going to follow your directions and see what I get. Thank you !
Directions followed and it “ worked a treat”!. I think this looks mostly like yours. Let me know what you think. . Anyway will see what happens by tomorrow.
Very similar to making biscuit dough (scones, for the unenlightened UK :) ), I think. I use a fork and a whisk would be a poor choice - and hard to clean.
TomP
Yes, I got the biscuits/scones thing when I was over in the US the last time! I was always wondering why people were having biscuits with their meals over there, then saw them and realized they were scones!
I think you want to avoid gluten formation when making them as well, so same idea with mixing the biga in this way. If a fork works for scones, then it would be best in this case too.
I posted an initial pic of the biga after I made it. It will be 24 hr old in 4 hrs. It has a pleasant fragrance but
i don't note any "wet" areas ,it does look puffier. I think because I used ALL rye for the 200 grams in the biga that it could have used more water as it was home milled the day before . We shall see. I'll continue after you post pics and the next steps. thank you c
Apologies for the late post. Very busy day today, so had to abandon the biga in the fridge in the morning so lost some of the puffiness of the strands. But you get an idea of how it has become more moist now. The smell was tending towards slightly more sour than last time, probably because I have left it for more than 24h , even if in the fridge. I have left it there for tonight and will use it for the final dough tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed its not over fermented.
Your picture looks alright to me, but don't be rushed to use it if it is not a bit more mature, moist and puffy. That slightly glistening shine of some of the strands in my photo below is a sign it is becoming ready. And the smell. If you are getting the smell, that is a good sign you are on your way.
My picture is the before . I didn’t take a picture after 24 hrs. It’s covered in the fridge now. How much levain will I need for tomorrow? I need to feed some up from my stored starter.
What loaf did you have in mind to make?
I am trying to repeat the 2nd one from the experiment to ensure that the previous one was not a fluke. So was going to simply mix the entire quantity of the biga (what is visible in the photos: 200g flour, 20g SD starter, 90g water), with the rest of the ingredients of the loaf. 180g strong white, 4g salt, 20g chia seeds fully hydrated, and 147g water. No further levain added. Just the biga.
Except the seeds. I can’t eat seeds. Thank you!
for not having the seeds then. Both the flour to add and the water to get the hydration you are wanting to use. Mine is 65% which worked well with the spelt the previous time.
I will do that and the fact that I am using all rye for the biga and a hard white wheat that I will mill tomorrow. I always go by feel . Excited to try something outside my usual. c
So, all mixed up with the final ingredients (200g strong white, 1/2tsp homemade spelt malt powder, 4g salt, 20g (dry weight) fully hydrated chia seeds*, 160g water) and commencing the bulk ferment.
Letting it rest and hydrate for 30min and then will start with stretch and folds. Trying to keep it gentle to avoid the seeds ripping the gluten.
Will keep aside a small sample in a small glass container with a marker to asses fermentation and growth of the dough as spelt can gather pace very suddenly in the BF.
(*) Have to give my thanks in public to Steve Petermann for the labour of love to produce the invaluable soaker hydration data. Once I figured out how to use it a new world of soakers and using seeds in bread has opened up multiplying the possibilities for new bread tastes and textures. A really great good citizen act!
I always use 2% for total flour. So 400g flour total between biga and adding 200 today = 8 g. Can you address this before I mix ? Thanks
One of the reasons I started making my own bread was to see if I could reduce my sodium intake as a way of managing my blood pressure better.
While Tuscan no-salt bread is probably a step too far for me and I soon realized that salt in bread has structural/chemical reasons for being included as well, I found that I could go down to 1% without any noticeable taste or baking downsides, hence my lower salt %. Feel free to use as much as you are accustomed to use.
I also wanted to use less salt in bread for the same reasons. I did a lot of searching on the subject and found a journal article that stated that salt could be reduced down to 0.25% without too much change to the bread processing characteristics. I also found info that the effect of salt is mainly due to the presence of the chloride ion, so the replacement of some of the salt with potassium chloride (or even calcium chloride) is possible. I haven't tried the CaCl2, but using some KCl works just fine.
Yes, I agree. When I started, I first went with around 1.5% and worked my way down gradually, but at some point I started to feel challenged by the lack of tightness of the gluten structure and the complaints of the rest of the family about the taste and decided 1% was more within my comfort zone and would still be a big improvement on the salt content of commercial bread, so stuck with it.
Maybe now I am more confident about my SD baking skills I will start to reduce further and see what I can get past the others in the household :-)
I remember reading somewhere that Italian salt-free breads are intended to be eaten with strongly-flavored foods, not on their own.
The bulk ferment is progressing at a pace. Already sounding hollow when tapping the mixing bowl from underneath and has expanded by about 25-30%.
This is what it looks like after x2 stretch and folds.
This is the bulk ferment after 3.5h and x4 S&F and one lamination. Letting it rest and grow for another 30min and then will shape into a boule and proof in the banneton.
Poke test still not quite there, but pretty close. Dough is very active and full of bubbles as I did the lamination. Sample in the glass container about double in size now.
In the banneton proving after final shaping 4h after mixing the final dough. Will start warming the oven in about 15-20min as it takes about 40min to come up to 230C which I use, with the dutch oven in.
Proving nearly done. Oven nearly up to a steady 230C. Getting ready to bake this in 5-10min.
Here is what the loaf looked like when it went in, before scoring.
And this is what came out. Quite amazing oven rise. As you can see from the 'ear', it actually lifted the lid of the dutch oven slightly! This is baked for 25min with lid on, and 15min with lid off.
Its crackling nicely as it cools now. Smells amazing. Can't wait to cut into it. For 50% spelt to get this kind of shaping and this kind of oven rise, I am very happy with that.
6h 25min from mixing final dough to baked loaf out of the oven. Pretty good for using 20g of SD starter only.
Beautiful loaf.
Final photo to show the crumb. Unfortunately its not a very good shot, but the bread came out very nice again. Excellent flavor and texture.
Very happy to have managed to repeat it with as good or even better results than the previous attempt. Feels like it is not a fluke but a useful technique to use and develop further.
Over and out from the biga bake.
I’m extremely pleased with my version. The rye flavor is better and cleaner than I can remember in any recent bake. Texture is lovely and absolutely NO sour whatsoever. Excellent bread technique. I think I’ll increase the hydration a bit and play with other flour combos. Thanks again. Caroline
Thanks Caroline. It was good to have someone goading me to explain things and, as a result, documenting the process more fully.
Glad you felt it was worth your while and found enough in it to continue experimenting.
My next step now will be to try it with a 100% wholemeal (wholegrain) wheat loaf, with 50% going into the shaggy SD biga.
But this 50% spelt, 7% chia seeds, 50% strong white SD biga loaf is definitely a keeper for me. The chia and spelt work really well together, giving a rich nuttiness to the taste an a high protein content too. I ate a slice of it with some home made houmous for dinner and it filled me up like a proper meal.
I posted a pic below in Blogs. Wish TFL would get their photo/edit thing working like it used to. I don’t have time for messing with outside editing.
Kepp posting your experiments!. c
Managed to find some time to have a go at a 100% wholegrain wheat loaf at 80% hydration using the 50% 'shaggy' SD biga.
Very nice taste and good soft moist and airy (for 100% WW) crumb.
BF run-away from me a little, as fermentation was going at a fair pace. Only managed 2 S&F and 1 lamination before shaping and putting in the banneton for a couple of hours proving in the fridge. Still felt a little overproved, but still, a nice result. Key improvement next time will be to keep a much closer eye on the BF as it seemed to accelerate fast.
Some final comments on the 50% SD biga demo loaf.
This loaf has retained its freshness very well. I had a couple of slices this morning for breakfast and it is pretty much as soft and moist as when I first cut into it, nearly two days after.
It is very filling. Two slices for breakfast with cream cheese and at around 8am and don't feel hungry till 1pm at the earliest. I think the high protein content from the spelt and chia seeds and the descent fiber content for an ostensibly white loaf from the spelt and chia seeds mean that it gets digested and metabolized more slowly than other non wholegrain loaves I have done.
This is a slightly better picture for showing the crumb.
Here are a couple of photos of the two loaves.
This is the first one. 25% wholegrain rye, 12.5% white spelt, 7% millet (soaked), rest strong white. Loaf hydration 70%. Combined 100% hydration wholegrain rye levain and 50% hydration spelt 'shaggy' biga.
This is the 2nd loaf. 50% white spelt, 5% chia seeds (soaked) rest strong white. All the spelt used for a 50% hydration 'shaggy' biga left for 24h at 19C before using for the BF. Half a tsp of home made spelt malt added to BF. Overall loaf hydration 65%. BF about 3h and then left overnight in the fridge (6C). Baked at 230C in dutch oven, lid on 25min lid off 10min
They sure look good! The loft of the second one is just the ay I like it, a good accomplishment with 50% spelt.
TomP
Your loaves look good RR! I don't wish to dampen your enthusiasm for the biga process, but to be honest I seldom make biga loaves these days.
In my experience, the plus side of biga is lofty loaves, thin crispy crust and good looking, open crumb. But the downside for me is that the loaves lack flavour. I put this down to the minimal fermentation in the preferment. My preference for a yeasted preferment is a sponge, or possibly a poolish.
Just my thoughts, others may disagree.....
Lance
I had the same feeling with the CY biga previously. Maybe the first of the two loaves didn't have as much character, but the second had a lovely taste and perfume.
Maybe the addition of the malt powder helped because the colour was better and the taste was also excellent. The biga definitely needs lots of 'fuel' to run in the BF.
Found that even more with the CY trials. The bread was very pale. Classic look of sugar starved fermentation. I think that also impacts the taste too.
For the reasons you mention. I hate diastatic I don’t care how little I use it makes the dough awful . I bake the diastatic for 5 min and it converts to non diastatic. The pizza bakers I have looked at all use malt for the browning and that illusive flavor. I throw the non diastatic into bagels and pizza dough always.
my biga already looks beautiful and puffy. I’m going to stick it in the fridge to hibernate in a bit. Feeding my starter tonight so I can experiment some more.
What I enjoyed with the second 50% biga bake was that I used the starter straight out of the fridge, without any feeding and it worked great. It made the whole process so easy to fit in with the day job!
Also mixing in the shaggy biga strands to the rest of the flour and water was super easy too. No need to rip iup or anything. Looking forward to hearing the outcomes of the bakes.
For the tips. I’ve used starter straight from my supply as well. So I did what you did and just took a 20g scoop of stored starter and added the fresh ground rye and water at the rate I saw on the YouTube pizza video and made a shaggy biga. It’s in a warm ish place. I have spelt I can mill. so will see what happens. . c
Mainly I've done yeasted biga; I would certainly imagine that the SD version would have better flavour. Though I think you have to be careful as I have had SD biga turn to soup.
Lance
Yes, my initial CY trials were also underwhelming. Definitely not the kind of flavor I got with the 2nd SD starter loaf. That was one of the tastiest bakes I have done. Not sour, but very nutty and rich. I think that with 50% of the dough fermenting for 24h in the form of the biga, it makes up for the faster BF. And maybe the malt also contributed too.
I am posting the pics from the process above for the next loaf, so hopefully it comes out as well and there is some repeatability, rather than a soup..!!
Here's a video where the baker found a method that sounds almost identical to yours, though perhaps a little easier to do. It's being used to make a ciabatta - [corrected link]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nuNkBFSNEA
TomP
PS - sorry about the commercials.
Did you link the correct video? This one is about Turkish Thin FlatBread and doesn't involve a biga at all...
Grrr, operator error. Sorry, it's this one, and I'll correct it in my post, too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nuNkBFSNEA
I never use bigas because I hate dealing with trying to incorporate that thick texture but this post from the past and a lazy Saturday and some YouTube gave me ideas.
I watched several videos on pizza crust with a Sourdough biga. I also read some translations from Italian on the process of making / fermenting a biga for more flavor.
I made one today the standard way and did knead lightly to just incorporate the flour while not overworking toward gluten development. I am allowing it to ferment and will then let it reside in the refrigerator for a couple days as the Italian pizza makers suggested. I’m going to make a SD biga but need to build up my starter for bread first .
When I first read the material I thought they were talking about using an “ aged” biga AND a levain to raise a dough. I’m intrigued by that idea as well. I have spiked SD with a pinch of ADY with excellent results. Only takes a tiny pinch.
The idea of using 100% hydration starter with flour and water mixed and combined at a 50% hydration and fermented to make a SD based biga appeals as well. I’m going to try all three methods and see what I like. Will see about posting results. c
I am eagerly following.
I'm reviving this thread to ask if anyone here has done any more baking of loaves made with a biga + sourdough combo.
I'm holed up for a few weeks in a self-imposed get-away to get some work done and deliberately didn't bring my starter with me. But, of course, I couldn't go without baking/procrastinating, so I tried Abel's fabled 90% biga recipe, using a mix of 75% bread flour/25% whole wheat.
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Has anyone investigated if an overnight biga + a sourdough final dough could build the best of both worlds--lots of varied flavors plus a shatteringly crispy crust?
Rob
I don’t understand how it’s a problem to incorporate a biga into dough. I do it just like I do my starter or a polish. I measure out my water for my formula give or take 50-100 cc and then I put everything but the flour into that water. That means any levain- dry yeast, poolish or biga- salt, Trinity if I’m using ( EVVO, yogurt, honey) in = parts . Whisk thoroughly to incorporate all. Begin adding flour(s) and beat with a wooden spoon like a batter to begin the gluten phase of development. Add remaining flour, fold in bowl enough to wet all using the “ turn bowl with one hand spoon in other” method til all is moist. Stop cover autolyse 30-60 minutes. When you return the gluten will be almost completely developed all you do is a few folds on wet counter and maybe a lamination and set the dough to rise.
If you haven’t tried this method it sure beats spending time like you did . Hope this answers your questions. Good luck 🙏. c
If you have a biga it's going to be stiff and cohesive - unless you use ReneeR's crumb method - and it will be hard to work the liquid in by hand, especially by hand. After that you have to work in the remaining flour. I think this is what's going on.
Pressing the biga out into a rectangle and massaging in the liquid little by little would probably be the easiest way to go, or of course, using a mixer.
TomP
As soon as you decide to start baking with the prepared biga get it out and get it presoaking. While all the other ingredients are being gotten ready it will have soaked up enough and softened so that it's very simple to get it mixed in. I wouldn't waste any effort on trying to work a stiff biga. That's just MHO. I have reduced all the work I can and keep hunting for more and more ways to simplify :) c
Thanks, trailrunner & TomP, for the advice. Soaking the biga is a dough "d'oh" moment for me. So simple.
Rob
A d’oh moment! I’ll have to remember that. I have an Apple Yeast Water poolish rising right now for a Challah I’m making for a party tomorrow. Good luck and please post results. c
Thanks for the tip: soaking the biga was an immense help, though it still took some work to make the dough smooth. This 90% biga bread is 45% whole wheat & 77% hydration.
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Nice loaf! Did you like the result?
I did some experimentation with the percentage of biga. I think 50% was the best. I did a 100% and it was ok, but found the crust a bit too tough and the crumb a little chewy and over most.
The handling of the dough too was not the best.
Thanks, ReneR. It's good, but, as I haven't baked with commercial yeast in a while, it's hard to make comparisons. In truth, I'd say it's missing some of the subtle flavors I've come to expect from my sourdough. I'll try a 50% biga next week -- with, I guess, a longer bulk and proof. And, once reunited with my starter in October, I'll be sure to follow your approach and try it in a biga.
Cheers!
Rob
A long time ago I baked some loaves using a small amount of yeast so they would ferment in about the same time as my usual sourdough. I added a tablespoon of liquid I drained from some live-culture yogurt. I'm sure I could used the whole yogurt just as well.
The flavor was in-between a yeast-only bread and my sourdough bread.
I don't see why that wouldn't be just as good if added to the biga.
TomP
Rob, think your loaf looks pretty good for a high wholewheat loaf. And I found your comment about the flavours interesting, would have expected more taste.
This thread has been inspiring for me too. Yesterday I made two loaves using Rene's approach of 50% biga with sourdough. The biga had a lovely sourdough smell after 24 hours but it didn't carry through as much to the final breads as I'd have liked. So, I'm going to try going in the opposite direction next and follow Abel's approach with a 90% biga, but sourdough!
Looking forward to seeing what you achieve when you're reunited with your starter in October, although if it was me I'd have already begged some starter off the nearest bakery!
Thanks, JonJ -- yes, I'd say the biga approach produces good looking loaves -- but what I've been cooking doesn't quite live up to the look.
Using commercial yeast, the first biga I made had a tremendous yeasty smell after 16 hours on the counter, but that didn't translate into any real flavor in the baked bread. Perhaps because it had lots more whole grain flour in it, the second biga smelled strongly of fermenting wheat, not yeast. But again, not much of that savor survived the bake.
I'm planning to walk to the nearest supermarket tomorrow and hope I can find some rye flour -- so I can try a grain mix more in line with the tastiest pains de campagne I have baked: something on the order of 60% bread flour/30% whole wheat/10% rye. I may also let the biga sit a little longer -- perhaps a full 24 hours.
I look forward to hearing more about your sourdough 90% biga experiment.
Rob
From my readings and in person research on the kind of biga I have been doing, whether using CY or SD, the biga is always left for 24h. There was complete consensus on that.
The other point I found agreement on is that when using CY, compressed fresh yeast in Italy, you put only 1% of the total biga flour weight. So for 100g of biga flour 1g of yeast and 40-50g of water.
I translated 1g of fresh compressed yeast into 10g of 100% liquid SD starter and adjusted the biga weights for that, which seems to work in a comparable way to the CY biga.
But, either way, it needs always 24h to fully ferment and develop a good flavour.
Now that I'm becoming a fan of your biga methods, I'm finding this to be something I'm wanting to explore more and more!
I've tried your wonderful 50% biga/24 hour method now, inspired by some of your posts and comments, thank you!
For my first 'shaggy' 50% biga - with 80% bread flour and 20% wholemeal spelt - what was so exciting was that the handling of the final dough was lovely (except for the lumps!) and the 24 hour method actually makes it easy to fit into my life. Was a little disappointed that the flavour wasn't all that noticeable in the final bread even though the biga had a great smell to it. And the flavour is important, which is the main attraction of the biga for me.
With the goal of getting more flavour, I was inspired to make Abel's recipe today, but using a 24 hour biga. Dropped the amount of starter down and kept temp between 17-19°C so that I could go 24 hours. But, it was a nightmare to handle the dough as I was using a regular Italian all purpose flour which couldn't handle the 70% hydration (or, as you say, proteolysis might have happened, but it didn't smell acidic, so I'm not sure about that); in any case shaping was a nightmare, even though the final bread was nice and it also had a lovely gentle sourdough taste to it which is what I was going for.
And, by the way, Abel's recipe is 0.33% instant yeast or 10% sourdough, and 14-16 hours at 14-16°C! That amount of instant yeast is comparable to 1% fresh yeast.
Abel also says in a comment that you need a strong flour if you go with sourdough, so I guess that was my mistake to not use such a flour. Logically, the next thing, wanting both flavour and handling, is to try a 90% biga with similar flours to my first biga bread - 80% bread flour (but strong bread flour this time, pulling out that Manitoba bag for this) and 20% wholemeal spelt. Perhaps next week.
I'd love to know your thoughts on it if you tried to make Abel's bread staying faithful to his (quicker) method! Would the biga be ripe enough for you, now that you're used to a 24 hour timing? It could be such an interesting exercise for us too to know your thoughts and to deepen the conversation...
-Jon
Hi Jon. Great you are also experimenting with this method.
I had read Abel's recipe and postings which also inspired me to get into this approach and also try the 100% biga loaf but then I went slightly differently after doing more research on my own.
I read that biga was used in Italy from the times when flour quality was very hit and miss as a way to make decent bread even if the gluten was not that great, so it should work with your AP flour, even if it's not great for gluten.
If my analysis is correct, while the biga does preserve gluten more than a poolish, some degradation still takes place. The biga part of the flour is, to some degree, sacrificed for getting a very lively pre ferment which then ensures that when you add the flour and water for the bulk fermentation, the rapid rise and short time between mixing and baking help make a good loaf with good rise even with not such high levels of gluten.
If you have 90% biga then you will taste the sourness much more but the enzymes will have hit the gluten much more also and the gluten content will be much lower as a percentage of the bulk fermentation than a loaf with a higher proportion of fresh flour and less biga. I think that's what might have happened with your AP bake.
Maybe see if with a 50% biga the AP flour works better. Maybe with a lower hydration too. The biga I find gives a really good crumb even if the hydration is not that high because it's so lively and active
I guess with this approach one is trying to get the right balance between flavour and gluten structure and to some degree one trades of some flavour for a better structured more lofty loaf. But I also found that compared to a straight direct method CY loaf using the CY biga gives it more of a sourdough kind of flavour because of the much longer fermentation.
As I have posted, with spelt the flavour is great because you can taste the spelt which is quite delicate and would be covered by a very strong SD flavour. It's all trade-offs however as with most things in bread making.
Rene, have you tried a 90% biga like Abel? If so, how did it turn out for you?
-Jon
Hi Jon. With the SD shaggy biga I did a 25% with another 25% SD polish, 50% SD biga, and 100% SD biga.
My feeling is that one needs the right balance between unfermented flour where the gluten will be completely unaffected by the fermentation process and hence any proteolytic activity and flour used for the biga which is fermented and even with the low hydration and minimum gluten formation of the biga strands, there is, nonetheless some gluten degradation.
I think this shaggy biga works for spelt so well because the low hydration and minimal mechanical gluten formation preserves what gluten the spelt has for a better gluten structure in the bulk fermentation which is also so sped up that, again, proteolytic activity is minimised.
So, in my thinking, 90 will be pretty similar to 100 and why 50 seemed to be a good balance.
here's my 50% biga experiment, using commercial yeast -- 60% bread flour, 40% whole wheat. I used only bread flour in the biga and added the whole wheat and extra bread flour for the final mix.
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Interestingly, the biga developed a different smell than the first two experiments. This time it smelled like young whisky -- a serious raw alcohol odor. Also, due to wacky scheduling, I soaked the biga for 3 hours before mixing in the 2nd half of the flour. Perhaps that's why, once I mixed in the flour, the dough started rising like crazy. It ultimately came together in a nice boule, but it continued expanding so fast that I became worried it would be too large for my dutch oven. It baked without all that much oven spring and the crust didn't split naturally like the earlier loaves. I probably should have scored it.
The flavor is definitely more complex and satisfying than the 90% biga loaves I baked previously.
Rob
That looks excellent for a 40% WW loaf Rob!
I also found that the bulk fermentation accelerates dramatically using this method. I was finding myself not having time to do all the S&Fs and laminations and also was wondering about fitting into my DO.
Maybe the scoring would have helped the oven rise, but maybe because of the pace of the bulk fermentation it was already close to fully risen.
I had a couple of loaves that actually lifted the DO lid during the bake!
Sounds tasty! Were you happy with this bread?
Flavour sounds good to me, and I like the straight sides from your pic, looks like you got good loft.
And maybe your mischeduling is a win too if it meant you didn't have to deal with lumps in the final dough.
I do like to have some control with the final 'approach' before baking, when there is some extra time to get good spring and crumb too, don't think I've quite got that right with my attempts at these biga 'threads' breads yet myself so far.
-Jon
Dunno. It had much higher loft and softer crumb than the best sourdoughs I've done--but it didn't bring forward as much flavor of the grain as I've achieved in a few pain de campagne bakes. Perhaps the biga could be extended to 30 or 36 hours. Or maybe the flavor would come forward with an abbreviated room temp bulk ferment and a longer, slower cold proof. Alas, I can't get rye flour where I am right now -- but I'd like to see what 10% rye might do (not in the biga but in the final dough.)
Yes, I kinda think the 3-hour soak accident was a good thing. Beyond the soak, I added additional water along with the rest of the flour in 2 small bassinage steps, to bring the total hydration to 77%.
Onward!
Rob
Rob, I went to my notes and readings from when I was researching using a biga and this is what I have:
Biga is too 'ripe' or 'mature': Darker in color, too soft, smell is too strong, there is moisture on the internal of the container in which is has been fermenting. BF will absorb less water and will come together too soon, giving a slightly sticky final dough. Dough may spread in proving and crust of final bake will be too pale.
Biga is not 'ripe' or 'mature' enough: It will be still grainy, more compact, less puffy, and not have much smell. The final dough will be slightly rough and not very elastic as if it has been made with a much stronger flour. The proved loaf will be more 'full' and less 'puffy'. The final loaf will lack growth, be more more 'tight' and have a too dark colour once baked.
Right maturity biga: Will be soft and puffy, with an aromatic smell and a light colour and will not stick to the sides of the container. The BF will absorb water/liquid with ease and it comes together without too much effort and with the anticipated level of kneading and will have nice smooth and elastic consistency. The final loaf will have the right oven spring and crust color.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, Rene. I think I got the biga right with this bake.
it's 50/50 bread flour/whole wheat
--a 25-hour biga of 1/2 the flour (all the bread flour) at 45% hydration (it started out smelling of yeast and after 25 hours smelled like an elegant whisky)
--a 3 hour soak in enough water to bring the hydration to about 110%, mixing a couple of times during the soak to try to dissolve any flour knots
--after the soak, I added the remaining 1/2 of the flour (the whole wheat) plus enough water (into which I mixed 1% salt) in 2 batches to bring total hydration of the dough to around 75%
--the dough bulk fermented on the counter for four hours -- three sets of stretch and folds. On the last set I mixed in 15% by weight of walnuts (I was inspired by Lin's rye bake on a different thread).
--I dumped it out on the board & gave it a 20 minute rest and then shaped it and gave it a proof of somewhere between 60 & 80 minutes (I lost track)
--I baked it at 450F in a dutch oven, 20 minutes with lid on, 20 minutes with lid off.
The result is light and tasty. The crust didn't split much on its own. But it's thin & crispy. Overall, this bread is extremely satisfying & I guess I'm happy.
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Rob
Rob, that looks excellent!
High whole wheat content loaves are tricky to get soft and airy crumb and thin and crisp crust with and I can see both in that loaf.
When one gets that cracking crust as the bread cools one knows it's going to be a good loaf when one cuts into it.
I'm tempted to try out your recipe myself over the weekend and see how I get on with it. Need to get some wholemeal flour in and see how it works with a SD biga.
I second that this loaf looks excellent. Surely you're positively happy.
Love the walnuts peeking out.
Thanks for your kind words and support, Rene & Lin.
So, to mark the equinox, this one's a 50% biga, ground coffee, apple cider & walnut bread made with 50% bread flour and 50% whole wheat.
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It spread more than it rose. But ...
Rob
Rob, it both looks and sounds good. Again , for a high wholewheat content, it looks pretty well risen and with a nice looking crumb and decent crust (maybe a little thick?).
What a combination: coffee, apple cider and walnut. Tastes good?
Why do you think it spread more than your previous 50% biga? I note that they are both 50/50 white/whole wheat loaves. Was this a stickier or more hydrated loaf perhaps?
It's a good bread. I think the spread is mostly my fault: I tried to score it with two parallel lines, which immediately released the surface tension that had built up in shaping. Other possible factors: the sweetness of cider (I used water for the biga so as not to have the sugar jump-start gluten formation and cider for the rest) may have led to a slightly slacker dough. Also, I added more walnuts, approx. 22% by weight.
The crust is actually pretty thin and overall the bread is mighty good eating. Next time I would try a light roast coffee, as the cheap, freshly-ground espresso I used, even at just 1.7% by weight, added a slightly burnt flavor -- though the intensity has mellowed over the hours.
I am enjoying the biga voyage. Thanks Rene & Lin for inspiration!
Rob
I did some experiments over the w/e, although with much more pedestrian loaves.
I wanted to try and see how the SD 'shaggy' biga translated to wholemeal spelt which is a flour I have only tried to use once in the past and ended up with a kind of pancake sludge to try and bake.
The picture shows a loaf made with my usual 100% hydration SD liquid levaine on the left and the 50% SD biga on the right. Both are 65% overall hydration and the remaining flour was an OK AP flour I have used for similar bakes in the past.
The liquid levaine loaf on the left was 25% wholemeal spelt (100g) which was all used in the levaine (seeded with 10g SD starter & fed twice with the wholemeal spelt before the BF.
The loaf on the right is 50% wholemeal spelt, all of which was used in the SD biga.
The biga loaf has a gorgeous, only slightly sour/nutty, flavour. The crumb is nice, with a good balance between moistness, airiness, and crumbliness. Oven spring was decent. The only slight issue is the crust, which is a little on the thick side and very slightly tough, but that does happen with high whole grain flour content bakes.
The liquid levaine loaf was going ok up to the pre-shaping and proving where the gluten started to degrade quite drastically. Little oven spring, but, despite that and a very sour taste, the bread is not unpleasant, either in texture or flavour, if one treats it as a kind of nordic style bread used for open sandwiches with roast beef slices and horseradish or cream cheese and smoked salmon.
Still, I would probably stick to the biga approach, purely because of the issues with the gluten structure and excessive sourness of the liquid levaine approach and wanting to avoid the panic of suddenly gluten deterioration I experienced.
what a difference! I'd say the loft you got with the biga bread, despite it being twice the spelt content of the levain bread, offers dramatic proof of your biga concept. Congrats!
Rob
I don't think it would have been as dramatic if the gluten deterioration had not set in with the liquid levaine bake.
I read this with much interest, Rene. Were total fermentation times of the spelt equal in both cases? Might the total fermentation time of the SD levain loaf be slightly longer with the BF? I suppose the double-build levain and biga might have almost similar fermentation times (24hr?).
If fermentation times are somewhat similar, I find it so interesting that the 25% spelt dough experienced significantly more gluten degradation as a result of the fermented spelt having an increased hydration in the pre-fermentation stage. But that might not be all that surprising, I suppose, as higher hydration levels give us more LAB, which degrade the gluten, but one would have thought the 75% AP could have done the heavy-lifting for the dough.
Perhaps a lower hydration spelt levain (to decrease acidity and cut the sourness) with a higher % of wholegrain spelt (to decrease final BF duration) might be an interesting case?
Nonetheless, I think both loaves look terrific and must taste excellent. Coincidentally I was baking 60% wholegrain spelt loaves over the weekend myself, one with all the spelt pre-fermented in the levain (4g seed for 210g spelt), and the other a 50/50 split between the levain and the final dough.
-Lin
You are right Lin, the full fermentation time was not dissimilar, but the liquid levain did take a little longer. But I think the answer is in the hydration not the time. Interestingly, the liquid levain loaf was also a little darker, even if it had less wholemeal in it.
Both the biga and liquid levaine were inoculated with the same SD starter, so starting from the same point, hence the starer and its condition would not have been a factor. If anything, the biga actually has a bigger % of inoculant than the liquid levain.
The liquid levain was getting acidic quite quickly and was not growing as much as when I use other flours, having loads of tiny bubbles, like it was fizzy, rather than big ones that stay well-defined. I think it is a spelt thing. It also happened when I used white spelt in a liquid levain.
I think this is why spelt seems to work well with the biga (which is low hydration) and also, if I remember well from some other posts here on TFL, with low hydration levains/pre-ferments. I am finding that high hydration seems to provoke very intense enzymatic and/or LAB activity with spelt. Hence maybe why the AP was not able to cope in the liquid levain bake.
Would be nice to have some photos of your spelt loaves if you have any. I am intrigued with spelt as it is so idiosyncratic and not so straightforward to bake with, but lovely when it works. I guess one can always make it in a tin, but I am on a mission to use it for free-form loaves.
It seems like the wholegrain spelt is causing problems for your starter, i.e. making it overly acidic, so perhaps a single-build, lower ratio stiff levain might be interesting to try? Today I rose a wholegrain rye and wholegrain spelt levain with the same ratios at the same time, and the spelt did eventually catch up with the rye levain (took an hour more), with the same bubbles. It seems to me that the moment spelt levain is mixed with the final dough (and for me that is usually AP), fermentation is rapid, dough degradation sets in, but we still need enough time for flavour development of the AP...
What I've settled on for my starter, spelt and proofing temperature (room temp 22C) for wholegrain SD spelts - BF and proof min. 4 hours and max 6 hours. At the moment I've experimented with % of pre-fermented flour between 30% and 60%. I only do same-day bakes for spelts, though I have done multi-day levain builds fully with wholegrain spelt.
I did wonder about the colour when I first saw your picture, but I wondered if it was because the biga loaf rose a lot more, somewhat spreading out the density of colour. The other conjecture I had was that the liquid levain broke down the coloured bran more (e.g. my red spelt gives the levain a red hue). Btw, I too, love free-standing loaves. Let's not give up!
P.S. I see that George Q has made 100% wholegrain spelt free-standing loaves with great success!
Some photos from the spelt-ful weekend. Top picture, a single-build levain 60% wholegrain spelt (I did an overnight autolyse of 30% of the spelt and apportioned the 30% to the levain). Bottom picture, a double-build levain 60% wholegrain spelt (all 60% in the levain - took 24 hours). You can see the dough was going to die on me.
Single build spelt.jpeg
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Those look gorgeous Lin! Both of them!
I was actually thinking of experimenting with a low hydration stiff levain as you suggest. Also, using 10% of wholemeal spelt in the BF of the 50% white biga loaf as you also suggest, maybe adding the bran from the wholemeal as a soaker. I had been through the posts by George Q as well which encouraged me to look into using spelt with the biga as a low-hydration alternative to my usual liquid levain after all the difficulties I had experienced with it and spelt up to then. But have not used the stiff levain approach in the posts.
It seems that spelt does not like high hydration more generally but it still gives a good open crumb even without a lot of water.
BTW, I also did my biga white spelt loaf I have posted about previously and pushed the white spelt content to 60% from 50% and it was still good and kept its shape well, so will try and push it a little more next time and see how far I can get with it.
I concur: spectacular, Lin.
I've made George Q's remarkable recipe several times. I just wanted to highlight something he says that I hadn't taken in when I was just following instructions: that he developed his three-stage fermentation method after reading a back and forth from 15 years ago between Debra Wink and Shiao-Ping about lag times in fermentation and the idea that having several short fermentation periods tends to favor the production of yeasts over acids. I'm curious if that insight might be applicable here in addition to lowering the hydration of the levain.
Rob
I have followed that thread too, Rob, and actually use the insight for my liquid levain in general, which improved my loaves no end after going for multiple smaller feeds. That is why I went for x2 feeds with the 25% wholemeal spelt I posted above, but the levain got very acidic nonetheless. But remember Michael's intervention in that debate about how LAB count can still be quite high even if the levain is not very sour? So frequent small feeding is not necessarily bringing their numbers down ... I definitely think with spelt, hydration is a big part.
Did George Q's method work for you?
Thanks for the kind words, Rene and Rob. Definitely agree that hydration plays a big role with spelt. I'm also quite careful with fermentation temperatures with spelt - I find that keeping it between 18 and 22 works best for me. I remember reading a thread somewhere that mentioned 22 or 23 C (?) as the sweet spot for optimizing yeast over LAB, and sticking with that has allowed me to make pretty airy, structurally sound loaves that are not too sour.
I might try out George Q's method one of these days and compare that with my current preferred one-build method and report back on the differences. Interestingly, his method apportions 13% of the spelt to the pre-ferment, but BF of the final dough is only around 3 hours (he does a 8 hour cold retard, though). My recent loaf had 60% of the spelt in the pre-ferment, and BF was also around 3 hours! Hydration is comparable: his seems to be around 69%, while mine generally hovers around 72%. I suppose my only reservation here is the high % of wholegrain that undergoes a reduced fermentation window (just thinking about digestibility for family members with weak stomachs), but I think that might be what makes the loaf structurally sound.
Let us know, Rene, how your 50% white spelt + 10% wholegrain spelt levain loaf goes if you do make it.
P.S. I just had a bread party in the office, and all attendees unanimously declared the 60% spelt loaf (with roasted hazelnuts and cranberries) their favourite.
my 1st 100% spelt bake was phenomenal. A few later attempts (posted later in GeorgeQ's thread) showed spelt is quite sensitive to process & timing changes.
Rob
So here is the spelt loaf I made over the weekend.
50% white spelt all used in a 24h SD 'shaggy' biga, 10% wholemeal spelt and 40% AP (total flour 400g), both mixed in with the biga ahead of the BF stage. I also sifted the bran out of the wholemeal spelt (4g) and did a soaker with boiling water, which was also added after cooling to the BF, plus 1% of salt. Overall loaf hydration 65% (soaker calculated to make it hydration neutral).
As my previous spelt loaves have had crust a little on the pale side and BF has gone at a fair pace, I decided to cut down a little the amount of liquid SD starter I use, from 20g for a 200g flour biga to 15g for the same amount of biga flour. Alas, due to unforeseen circumstances, I could not do the BF on the Friday when it would have been 24h so put the biga in the fridge and proceeded the next morning (which may have invalidated the lower inoculation experiment). Nonetheless, the crust was a little darker.
The loaf was lovely. Good dough handling, good oven spring, good crumb, good crust (crackling as it cooled), and great flavor (hint of sour, but lovely 'toasty' spelt nuttiness). Only slight quibble would be that the crumb got a tiny bit gummy the next day after the bake when it was not fresh. Maybe could have done with a tiny bit longer in the oven?
Next bake I am going to attempt to raise the wholemeal spelt to 20%, so 70% spelt in total. I will carry on and see how far I can take it. Would love to reach 50/50 white and wholemeal spelt.
That looks really good, Rene! Seems like a thin, crispy crust and a great rise. Congrats!
Gumminess - yes, I wonder if the soaker contributes to that, but it's a really tiny amount, so probably just 2 or 3 more minutes in the oven would have cut it. Looking forward to how the 50/20 does in the next instalment.
As the other posters have pointed out, I have tried and had very satisfying results with a biga made with sourdough starter rather than commercial yeast.
I had excellent results with it, with excellent taste, oven lift, crumb, and crust.
The biga I use is low hydration (50% or less) and simply mixes the water and sourdough starter solution (10g 100% hydration liquid sourdough starter for every 100g of biga flour) with the biga flour. I employ a minimum of mechanical agitation (I used chopsticks) to make a biga the consistency of the crumbs for a crumble. I then leave that to ferment for 24h at room temperature before mixing with the remaining loaf ingredients for the bulk fermentation. I have made some blog posts about some of the bakes where I provide more detail.
I never had a problem with the mixing of the crumbs/strands of biga into the final loaf dough as they have a minimum amount of gluten at that stage. I simply put the remaining flour for the loaf in a bowl, make a 'crater' in the middle into which I pour the remaining water and any other liquids plus the fermented biga strands, and start mixing from the center outwards with a dough whisk, with the strands dissolving into the liquids quite effectively. I am not too bothered about some clumps here and there as they get smoothed out with the stretch and folds etc further down the line.
I found that this 'shaggy biga' works very well with white spelt. I have developed a super 50% white spelt loaf with added soaked flaxseeds that uses this preferment and it always works amazingly. It is the only way I have been able to make such a high spelt content freeform loaf. It is not so much use for a 30% wholemeal rye loaf. OK-ish for wholemeal wheat but not so much in it. I am about to try it out with durum wheat flour with which I think it might also work well.
If you have a look at my blog posts you will see and read more about my experiments with 'shaggy' sourdough biga.
Thanks, ReneR, for your thoughts & pointing me to your posts. You definitely have baked some stellar loaves. I'll definitely try your biga method when I reunite with my sourdough starter in a few weeks.
Rob
PS: if you ever want to try a great, totally different take on a high-%age spelt freeform loaf, check out George Q's 100% spelt 3-stage recipe. It's amazing.
As I wrote, I was going to try out the 50% SD 'shaggy' biga with some durum wheat flour. Here are the results using 100% durum wheat flour, 50% used in the biga and 50% in the bulk fermentation.
It came out really nice. Lovely crumb, thin but crackling-crunchy crust, good oven rise, and nice flavor. I can taste the 'butteriness' of the durum wheat which I couldn't in previous bakes using my SD liquid pre-ferment.
In past bakes with the same flour and using a SD liquid levaine I have had to keep hydration to around 65% as I have found that durum wheat can go very quickly from a quite tough and strong gluten structure to quite loose during the BF, so tend to be conservative with the hydration, anticipating a loosening of the gluten as the fermentation progresses. But this kept the strength throughout the process so am tempted to go up to 70% in the next bake with this flour using this technique.
Lovely bread Rene. It's got it all, colour, texture and buttery flavour.
Is it a 'rimacinata' durum flour that you used? And was it a small loaf?
-Jon
Thanks Jon. Yes, it was rimacinata and it was a small loaf. 400g flour.
The colour was more yellow than it appears in the photo. Very satisfying. I'll go for 70% hydration with the next loaf.
That looks beautiful, Rene.
Rob
So here is how the 70% hydration 100% semola rimacinata (durum wheat flour) 50% shaggy biga loaf turned out.
This is one of the best loaves I have baked. Amazing flavor with the right balance between a slight sour tang and the butteriness of the durum flour, perfect crumb, with the perfect cheewiness, a great oven spring, and a just right crust in terms of crispiness and thickness. It was absolutely amazing to eat with the grilled aubergines on the right of the picture with some ricotta.
The biga was made with 200g semola rimacinata, 15g of liquid SD starter from the fridge, 83g water and all fermented for 24h. I have reduced the SD inoculation slightly to make it a 24h biga. I drizzled some olive oil over the BF dough between 4 stretch and folds, and added 1g of barley diastatic malt at the BF stage and 4g of salt.
Dough handling and forming was good, if a little less 'autopilot' than the 65% version of the loaf made previously. Durum dough seems to change consistency quite drastically with a small increase in hydration.
This was some seriously good bread.
... and as you know, I just baked a couple of things.
I think you're onto something, cutting the amount of sourdough in a 24-hour biga. I was thinking about that today.
The eating sounds excellent. Brilliant. Congrats.
Rob
That looks incredible, lovely to see all the beautiful rimacinata loaves you've made.
I liked this video and the pizza made from it is amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IzCbv97Tn8
You can see his idea of shreds there.
That video was a key to me understanding in practice how to do what I had researched about biga. Helped it all come together. And also how it is a low stress low maintenance way to do a great preferment.
that video made me hungry!
for my last IDY biga bread, I got hold of some rye flour & made a 50% bread flour (all in the biga)/30% ww/20% rye boule.
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But I'm missing a little sourness, so once I'm reunited with my starter (and it recovers from weeks in the fridge) I'll try my hand at a sourdough biga.
Thanks for all the help & inspiration.
Rob
You are getting good at this Rob! Looks very nice. The picture sort of conveys the flavor you describe. Is the rye white rye or dark/wholemeal?
Leaving the countryside for the city? End of a holiday break? Hope the reunion with the SD starter will compensate for any accompanying blues.
Will be curious to see if you can get a good SD biga bake once the starter is up and running again.
and let us know how the SD biga turns out!
This loaf looks very good as usual, and nice to read that the sweetness of the grain came through. What prompted you to apportion the white flour to the biga, and the rye/WW to the final dough, rather than the other way round? Would the flavour and handling of the dough differ quite a bit if swapped?
-Lin
Thanks, guys.
I started doing the biga with just white flour bc the first dough I made this way (90% biga, white & whole grain mixed 50/50) was unruly. I mix my doughs by hand and had an instinct that the knots of yeasty biga would be easier to soak and incorporate into the final dough if made with only lighter flour. Also, rye can ferment quite rapidly, so I didn't think it would necessarily benefit from the 24-hour biga treatment.
As for the country v. the city: I've been in rural Pennsylvania for a few weeks in an effort to jump-start a long-delayed book manuscript. To be honest, baking was mostly a procrastination device -- though it did make for good sandwiches and I learned alot from posting here on the fresh loaf.
More soon, I hope.
Rob
I can agree about the difficulty of trying to incorporate biga made with whole wheat!
I had to press out all the tiny hard bits of wh wheat biga-the hydration is only 50-65 %. It was a workout but well worth it.
My dough for tomorrow is to use a white biga (included a rice roux) with a ready mixed 100% whole wheat lean dough that is retarding in the refrig separately from the white biga. I hope to mix them (50:50 :: white :"whole wheat") and still get an airy bubbly pizza / focaccia . We'll see after the bulk and final rise!
PS bread book?!
That should be one crispy crusty pizza! Mmmmm!
as for "bread book?!' -- 🤣
x
About the mixing of the biga into the final dough and the lumps, in the video Roberto Susta says in passing in Italian (not sure it is in the translation) that he is adding the extra water to it "a little at a time", as he kneads it with his hands.
Agree with Rob. I am not sure that the SD biga method is as effective with wholegrain flours. Tried it with both wholmeal rye and wholemeal wheat, and it was not as striking in its effect as with white flours. Maybe, as Rob suggests, the wholegrain flours are a little too lively to start off with and the difference is not so noticeable. Might try again with a slightly lower SD starter inoculation or shorter biga fermentation to see if there is a difference.
here's a 50% bread flour (100% of the biga)/30% ww/20% whole rye with walnuts.
I used 10% starter to biga dough weight but brain froze & forgot that starter has water, so I slightly overhydrated the biga (50% hydration instead of 45) and some gluten started to form. Also, I didn't shape it tight enough.
But, damn it tastes good.
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I followed the biga bread with sourdough pan cristal.
Bread overkill!
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Rob
You clearly missed your sourdough starter, Rob!
Ah, yes! I also realized I had to take the starter hydration into account! I can see what you mean about making the final dough tighter, but it does look tasty and it is high if whole wheat and rye.
Great result. You'll fine tune the process as you try stuff out and it will only get better.