what went wrong with my spelt/rye loaf?
i landed on this one loaf recipe because i liked the ingredients, but i didn't read it through, just started on it. i used exactly half of these ingredients
- 2½ cups all-purpose flour (i replaced this with white spelt)
- 1½ cup rye flour
- 1¼ teaspoons baking soda
- 1½ teaspoons kosher salt
- 2 cups buttermilk
and started to follow the directions -
"In a large bowl, whisk together the flours, baking soda and salt. Make a well in the center and pour in the buttermilk. Using a wooden spoon, stir the buttermilk into the flour mixture until a dough develops."
and therein, i suspect, lies the rub. i have no idea as a starting baker just how to develop a soda bread dough. was it supposed to be kneaded until smooth? i didn't knead it for long, having not a clue at what point i might consider the dough developed. i would guess i wasn't even close.![](http://www.flickr.com/photos/157434845@N03/27456063228/in/dateposted-public/" title="20180408_141355"><img src="https://farm1.staticflickr.com/896/27456063228_69a2024019_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="20180408_141355"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>)
or perhaps the loaf was simply undercooked? i fully pre-heated the oven as per the thermometer, and the inside loaf temp was 191 and i put it in for a couple more minutes after that. it didn't sound hollow - more like it was stuffed with dough (not that i'm sure if soda bread should sound hollow).
but like i said, i haven't a clue about soda bread. i've not only never made it - i've never seen it made and i've never eaten it. i only chose it because i wanted to try a loaf made with some rye and buttermilk with no sweeteners and not a huge amount of sodium.
the inside has a tight, dense almost puddingy texture - although the edges are tasty.
so, any suggestions or thoughts beyond not starting a recipe i have no frame of reference for without more experience?
should soda bread sound hollow if you knock on it and it's properly cooked?
thanks!
bread end of it, but the rye could use a soaking in the buttermilk to take advantage of the acid to help with the elasticity. Maybe a good hour or so. Replacing spelt should not change anything as the rye will keep the rising in check. Hmmm... mixing soda into the flours, eh? Spelt maybe but not the rye. I bet the dough was underhydrated and needed more buttermilk. What was the dough like? Clay?
Hey, I got an idea... I got the same ingredients and have some very ripe buttermilk, what do you say I try to repeat ...do you have a scale and can tell me what a cup of your spelt weighs?
Mini
maybe dense clay, but i was easily able to knead it by hand and it was sticky. if this were a yeast bread, the dough would have needed more kneading, but with soda bread i haven't a clue - is it supposed to get smooth and not stick? it barely rose at all, even compared to my other breads so far. it had very little or no oven spring.
1 cup of my white spelt flour weighs 137 grams.
the loaf shrunk and shrunk after it was cut, getting tighter and the holes got even smaller and it got darker. since i have no idea how to tell when soda bread is done, could it be undercooked or is 191 degrees high enough for that not to be the problem. btw, the buttermilk is one day past it's expiration date, but it smelled like buttermilk, no different than ever.
btw, thanks for all the help and info you've been giving me! i'm improving on some things and enjoy baking, but every time i try something brand new, it tends to be a disaster...
Been there lots of times! Great learning experiences! Lol.
recycle it. Grate the brick into large crumbs and 1) mix it into the liquids of a yeast dough with some sourdough discards. Or... 2) mist with water (or tea) pressing ever so lightly into a loaf pan or any form for that matter (a lamb comes to mind and so do muffin cups) and heavily steamed to re-gel the crumbs to bind them. Let edges brown a little for more flavour and carefully deplan.
Ha! If you combine a pinch with a spoon of the buttermilk does it react? A good test before using it.
recycle it. huh, never knew about that. it's a great idea, no sense in throwing away food, and i can learn as i do it.
a pinch of what with a spoon of buttermilk?
my buttermilk has been shaken, so it's bubbly, but when i combined it with some soda, it got very foamy - science at work :)
btw, i'm still getting used to the subject lines on this board. gotta remember to read them so i don't miss stuff like "Just thought about the soda".
and do i ever feel stupid! i used baking powder instead of baking soda! i should never even try to follow directions on 3 hours of sleep - it just doesn't seem to work.
for future reference, how long should the dough be kneaded and should it get smoother and more elastic like yeast dough? and should a soda bread loaf sound hollow?
btw, i fried the slices of bread in butter and put parmesan cheese on them, and they were pretty tasty.
i have to go hide in embarrassment now....
myself. Will go recipe diving and figure this out about timing feel etc but I know that rye and spelt are soakeruppers and spelt needs a wet time before baking for it to absorb moisture. With soda, It will be more like biscuits with a barely kneaded method and a well floured or wet surface to shape. Maybe just a batter and plopped into a pan or made into a mound.
Browning always brings out flavour in grains.
There are two kinds of buttermilk.... the water from making butter, sweet & thin. ...and the thicker cultured buttermilk.
Is not meant to be worked much at all. Mix enough to incorporate everything but no kneading as such. A rough shaping, scoring (the typical soda bread way) and baking. The whole thing should take minutes to make.
https://www.bakewithjack.co.uk/videos/2017/1/25/bread-tip-18-how-to-make-soda-bread
As Lechem says, do NOT knead this bread, simply mix the ingredients with your fingers just enough until a rough mess (!)
Baking powder is just fine (and easier to use ..... less bitterness if you get it wrong)
If you are interested try my way ........ (use any flour you like)
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/46117/soda-bread-quick-and-easy-and-underrated
EDIT: use 2% salt instead of 'a good pinch' (too vague!)
I make this a few times a month and it NEVER fails :)
How long does soda bread stay fresh for?
thanks for the link to your recipe - it worked perfectly. i feel better now!
as i just posted on the page with your recipe, this bread came out beautifully - i made two loaves, one after the other - one was white spelt and the other whole grain spelt :) this time i let the buttermilk warm to room temperature, btw.
beginners should definitely try this.
We always eat it after a brief cool down :)
I figured it may not last long enough for you to find out. That would be my case with the soda bread you made with apricots. Looks delicious.
as upon retrospect it was a little vague :)
i'm going to try that recipe when i get up, and btw, thanks for converting a pinch to grams. i like specifics myself - it means one more thing i won't mess up :D
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/157434845@N03/39543712250/in/dateposted-public/" title="whole spelt loaf crumb"><img src="https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/39543712250_a2abff39b6_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="whole spelt loaf crumb"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
They weren't coming out properly so had to copy and paste then I had access to the photos. A big step in the right direction. What does it taste like?
You have piqued my interest. Good to see you had successful results this time :)
I made some for breakfast this morning and thought a few piccies might help you know what to look for.......
This is fresh out of the oven.....
This shows how the 'cross split' makes it so easy to just pull the bread apart........
This shows one piece cut with a knife but I prefer to simply pull them apart actually (nicer looking I think)
A 'crumb' shot ......
For your interest these were made up as follows:
100g Wholemeal Spelt
100g Strong White bread flour (only because I ran out of Spelt!)
130g homemade buttermilk and 30g of sourcream (only because I did not have enough buttermilk)
5g Baking Powder
4g Fine Sea Salt
The method was as previously described
:)
I've been thinking about your apricot soda bread too and had a thought about adding apricot jam into the mix but because it's not mixed thoroughly then you'll get pockets of jam within the bread.
I've heard that soda bread was popular by the Irish because of the weak flour. It suits low protein flour which yeasted bread needed.
You certainly have soda bread fine tuned and turn out the best ones I've ever seen.
Are you using Apple to post photos? Those who do have an issue with upside down photos. I think you need to trick it and post it upside down and then it'll flip it the right way up.
does turn my piccies around (!) . I have just edited the pics so OK now.
Many thanks for the flattering remarks....... actually I have wondered about my bread skills and what it says about me................. I think I am probably better at Soda bread......... which could mean I'm pretty rubbish at Sourdough! ( I do make killer yeasted bread tho' hehe).
As for the flour, strangely enough the flour I use is high protein (?). I have found the real trick is not to hang around too long.........this bread has to be assembled light and fast and put straight into the oven without delay.
Gotta say, this mornings was one of the tastiest I have made for a very long time. I think the white flour has probably 'toned down' the slight bitterness that can come with Spelt. Or maybe the Sourcream had an input?
Who cares? it's all yummy :)
But not kneaded so gluten is not developed. Soda bread is suited for low gluten flour but even with strong flour the way how it's handled makes the difference. I love the fact that it's like a scone. And my favourite way to enjoy scones is with jam.
The photos are the right way up now :)
Have you tried your hand at sourdough? We'd love to see your killer yeasted bread as well.
Do you know why soda bread is traditionally scored this way?
to let the fairies out :)
(don't shoot me, that's what t'internet says)
it's real purpose is to allow for expansion due to the fast rise of the bread in the oven :) This helps to reduce the chance of cracking and encourages the bread to rise up rather that expand out.
because of the fast expansion. As supposed to a shallow scoring on regular breads.
That... and to allow the fairies to escape :)
more of a deep press down nearly all the way through the dough to the base. I don't actually 'cut' mine, I simply use a dough scraper, this avoids 'dragging' the dough and I think gives a softer more rounded look to the finished bread.
these are the tastiest, easiest and quickest bread ever. in one hour i just did a 75% white spelt 25% whole grain spelt loaf and a 50/50% white/whole grain spelt with a very large handful of fresh diced anaheim chilis, and the smell is driving me wild!
i'm not sure why not, but my very deep scores rise a lot more than yours. not a problem, but i do use my dough scraper and press it till i can feel the surface beneath the dough.
You're teasing us with out piccies! C'mon, let's see em!
:) :) :)
i didn't get any pics this time - i was working and baking simultaneously.
i'll be sure and get some next time. i'm considering olives and... err... something else (suggestions?) or maybe sweet peppers... maybe both! it'll be within a few days - your recipe just rocks!
a couple days ago i wanted bread late in the evening. made the basic whole grain spelt version, no extras, 45 minutes from pre-heat to cooled enough to eat, and would be a little faster if my oven heated more quickly. delish, and so far this loaf has never let me down. didn't get pics as it looked like my first one, and besides - my husband and i couldn't wait to eat it!